World's first 10,800 car carrier with solar power delivered by China

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https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/china-delivers-worlds-first-10800-vehicle-ship

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The ship’s solar system can produce up to 200 kilowatts at its peak and generates about 1,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity daily

The carrier also uses a dual-fuel propulsion system that operates on conventional fuel oil and LNG.

I was real excited for electric shipping since one ship like this produces an unbelievable amount of pollution, but this is kinda pitiful in comparison to the power needs of these ships:

The propulsion arrangement on each ship includes one MAN 6S60MC-MK 10.5-GI-EcoEGR main engine with a rated output of 14,950 kW (20,000 hp) driving a propeller, a 2,000kW bow thruster, and three Himsen 8H22CDF 1,500kW generators. The LNG fuel is stored in two type C tanks with a combined capacity of 1,700 cubic metres (370,000 gallons).

1000kwh isn’t nothing and I suppose it might meet the ship’s power needs while in port (edit: nvm average shore power consumption for a panamax is 600kw) but this feels like a whole lot of greenwashing given they don’t mention the power requirements in the article.

It’s more like half full cup, except here is 0.01% full.

actually i think it’s more like 1% full.



Your average electric Porsche consumes more than 200kW.

It’s basically rounding error when you lug 10,000 of them.


hmm quite disappointing, guess to run something power hungry but has limited space like a ship nuclear might be the way if you want it fast, if you don’t need it fast you could go wind power (sails are so back)


honestly surprised they don’t have something that utilizes the forces of the ocean to generate a charge.

Which would increase drag and make it a worthless exercise. It would also mean loss of power in stormy seas, and who wants manoeuvrability in those sort of conditions anyway?

Get outta here with your laws of thermodynamics…these are international waters!


that’s quitter talk. if we can send trash into orbit we can certainly find a way to leverage oceanic motion.

Tidal generators are very much a technology (one, admittedly, in it’s infancy). The forces the ocean provides are generally too extreme to be casually harnessed, and even something as seemingly benign as waves redounding on the beach contain energy on the scale of nuclear weapons, and it’s contained in an extremely corrosive medium (salt water). And that’s not even the deep ocean movements, which are unfathomably (sorry) more powerful even then, and that’s before we get to the fact that the engine driving the tides is the entire damn moon.

Something like a tidal turbine would be completely unworkable on a ship; by their nature they produce energy from the difference of forces - which is to say, they would only generate power as long as the boat is moving counter to the current being harnessed. Even in an ideal world where we’re sovereign citizens to the laws of thermodynamics and have cast off the shackles of entropy, your ship would still have to output the same amount of energy as your turbine is harvesting just to stay in one spot.

There’s another common idea which is to use some kind of “water sail” that harnesses the currents and drags the ships along. The first problem with this is that, unless you’re about to have a very bad day, the ocean is creepily slow. Waves travel through the water, but don’t really displace the water molecules themselves, so there’s very little for an underwater sail to harness (side note: but do make use of underwater sails, but in the exact opposite way most people expect - sea anchors are basically enormous submerged sails, used to keep a ship relatively stationary when it’s too deep to use a traditional anchor). And were we to delve deeper for some of the deep thermal currents, it can take hundreds of years (or more) for water to make a complete cycle, which would be a very slow trip indeed.

Yet another proposal I’ve seen is to have some sort of large sliding body, a bit like those flashlights with a rod in them that you charge by shaking up and down, only much larger. The idea is that as the pitch of the ship changes as it ascends and descends waves, some very large weight (or multiple smaller weights or etc.) slides back and forth through long sets of coils, generating tremendous if quite periodic amounts of energy which is then stored in batteries or etc. This idea has many flaws, but I’ll briefly touch on three:

  • The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it’ll be easier just to sink itself
  • The huge amount of valuable cargo space that has to be dedicated to the generating system
  • The question of what to do when you’re stuck on calm seas.

The best approach would be to capture the quicker currents that are close to the surface, which are are often wind driven. There’s actually been huge advancements to harvest wind currents directly, usually using large sheets of cloth (or some other medium with high tensile strength) attached to long towers on the surface of the ship with these things called sails.

… Okay but joking aside, there actually have been really cool advances in using sails on cargo ships, that are extremely promising. More work needs to be done before we see them on a panamax, but there’s already been some fairly eager adoption of rotor sails for smaller cargo ships! It’s super cool tech that I hope can be combined with electrification to massively reduce (or if I were an optimist, eliminate entirely) the impact of shipping. Time will of course tell, but there is some cool progress being made.

The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it’ll be easier just to sink itself

Curses! Foiled by surprise differential equations again!



We already do with tidal generators.

And theres ways to follow currents for extra help, but you’re limited to that and where the current moves.

Anything else and you’d have to violate the laws of physics.

It’s like putting a wind turbine on an electric car. The increased drag would cost more electricity than the turbine could produce.






That looks a little gimmicky to me. I’d expect more panels on that ship if they were going to have a meaningful impact.

I saw a story about a similar car carrier with solar panels, basically they’re used to offset the hotel load of the ship, and have nothing to do with the propulsion.

Which is still a significant improvement considering how much time a vessel like this spends at port loading and unloading.



If you wanna be serious about saving fuel use Flettner rotors.

One of the first things that page says is that it generates less force than a standard marine propeller. That seems like it’d be less efficient and use more fuel to me.

You can’t compare total force output to efficiency like that. You need power in and power out.

_However, the global economic crash caused a decrease in consumer buying confidence. In addition to this, Marine Diesel Oil (MDO) and the related engine technology required to use it became readily and cheaply available. Fuel prices at that point meant that any savings achieved by the rotor were too small for shipping companies to consider the investment due to the lengthy payback period. _

So yeah cheap fossil fuels strike again

The exact quote is

“the propulsion force generated was less than the motor would have generated if it had been connected to a standard marine propeller.”

Based on that, the input power is a constant because they are comparing against the same motor. I would assume the power consumption is constant rather than bursty for either propulsion system, so there isn’t any peak-vs-avg power to be concerned about either.

That “source” is some NASA tutorial that just states that quote without any elaboration at the bottom. I don’t know how that passes as a source at all nor is it generally applicable in modern ships.

On the other hand there are multiple ships currently using these as additional propulsion system (as you can see further below in the wiki article). Flettners inital prototype used rotors as exclusive propulsion system. One could also use a kite or a sail by using the wind in favourable conditions.







First thought it was a GPU or something.


very cool! does anyone know what fraction of its energy consumption that it can produce on-site? i.e. the 1 MWh that it produces a day from solar panels, how many % are that of its total energy consumption for propulsion that day?

i just calculated that 1 MWh is about 300 kg of fuel (that it replaces) a day. so in 2 weeks, that’s maybe 5 t of fuel that it saves? that does not seem so much to me.

It may not be much but it is something.

They already run on crude instead of more refined fuel for very small percentage point gains in fuel cost.

5t less fuel over 2 weeks isn’t nothing, and this is the first one. With visibly a shit-ton more room for more panels.




Man, I don’t even have a 1 car carrier. It’s never enough for some people.


Don’t they also have big ships with sails?


So this ship is obviously just an experiment in greenwashing, it sounds like the panels basically just keep the lights on.

But if the 10,800 cars were all EVs equipped with V2L and you had them powering the ship, how far could their batteries at 100% propel the ship?

10,800 * 80 kWh = 864,000 kWh. Another post said the engine output is 15,000 kW, so it could go full steam for 864,000/15,000 = 57.6 hours? Although I guess using an electric rather than fossil engine will be a lot more efficient (2x? 3x?) Still, the energy density of oil is amazing…


I was actually thinking about this recently. It’s now making a lot of sense to just cover the mega carriers in solar panels like this. Could probably even just carry a massive battery and be completely emissions free. Maybe a tiny nuclear reactor as an emergency backup?


Ultimately the paradigm of mass shipping millions of tons of cargo across the ocean needs to stop if the environment is something that anyone wants to pretend to care about. As far as the cargo that is shipped, Cars are certainly the worst.

Shipping is a very small problem. In exchange for efficient centralized mass factory production it is no issue at all.



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By my estimates solar power would cover 0.3% of its propulsion cost, or 5% of its other electrical needs

Estimating 11000-14000kW needed at the shaft and up to 2000kW for other electrical needs

It reads like there are not that many panels on the ship either.


As is evidenced by their decision to go with dual fuel, the point of the solar was not to cover propulsion costs.

Nor does it even seem to cover a significant portion of auxiliary needs

Except it does.

This power helps run the ship’s operations, lowering fuel use and making the ship more energy efficient.

This is textbook peak shaving. Not to mention the engineering feat of integrating solar with LNG for this cargo application.

Hopping into the comments to decry the ship for not doing full propulsion via solar just shows your ignorance. It’s like complaining about a hammer for not being able to screw in a fastener.

It’s just greenwashing. Companies do it all the time. Slapp some solar on it or use some insignificant amount of recycling and you got your press release which lazy journalist just have to copy. That lead to clickbait articles.

And if you’re being honest you’re just defending it because the “by China” in the title.

Accusations of greenwashing are different than accusations of bad engineering. That’s a different conversation.



This is an odd strawman to construct

doing full propulsion via solar just shows your ignorance

The only ignorant person here my friend is you, nobody has said or suggested such a thing

Soo, then why did you characterize the solar power as being inadequate for propulsion? That is a meaningless thing to point out - given how the solar is not intended for propulsion. What was your original point?

You sound pretty mad bro








The wattage cannot plausibly be satisfied by those panels. Maritime traffic is ridiculously cheap and environmentally friendly compared to what it does. But it does an enormous thing.


“Combining solar and LNG”

Hey, I slapped a solar panel on my gas stove to power the clock. Its green now.

That’s really not what that is. Modern ships have an electric motor and a fossil fuel based electricity generator because they can run the generator in the most efficient rpm that way - and they also need electricity on board.

Same principle also applies to modern diesel trains.

Is it like how a non plug-in hybrid uses the battery to improve efficiency?

No, as those also have ICE motors. This is more like having an EV but instead of charging the battery directly you fill it with diesel. Then there is a diesel generator that runs constantly at the most fuel efficient RPM it can. Any engine has an ideal RPM that it can run at with significant savings - thing trying to go highway speeds in first gear for the opposite idea. Instead of the generator having to absorb any power spikes, the electric motors do that and use the stored energy.

There is also a startup company in BC that I saw has been implementing this idea into long haul trucks for substantial improvements.

. This is more like having an EV but instead of charging the battery directly you fill it with diesel. Then there is a diesel generator that runs constantly at the most fuel efficient RPM it can.

You just described a plugin hybrid, which is an EV with an onboard generator.

It’s very similar yes, as the plug in hybrid does much of what I described. The difference is that a hybrid with have a hybrid drivetrain which can be driven directly from the ICE motor if needed in addition to the battery-powered (via plug in it engine charging) electric motors.

Whereas what I described does not have that ICE fallback in the drivetrain. Does that make more sense? One only exclusively uses electric motors for the ‘work’ tasks, where the hybrid can use the ICE motor directly as needed.







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