I learned that I’m the “don’t notice cues” type, but I learned to (kinda) read a room. After reading rooms for a while, I realized it was bullshit and started brazenly defying the stupid ones. It’s very fun to openly challenge management, btw
Something I discovered when I started putting actual effort into masking was that the universal social cues, that were well understood by basically everyone else, were in fact neither universal nor well understood by everyone else.
Happy to, but i would need ti listen to it again first to remember the details. There are some books and other texts listed there as references if you’re interested in following those.
None of the resources seem particularly connected to calling him a grifter, though. The last article is the only one that has anything like a negative title, and the contents themselves are quite neutral.
Maybe? Don’t really know anything besides reading the book. Nonetheless, one of the main attributes of a grifter is the ability to read people, and his advice works, so.
I thought I was, now I just listen to my heart and do what comes to me, forget all the social business, I’m a good person and tired of second guessing myself
I’m AuDHD too. It can be difficult to say the least.
This is from my assessment training manual:
“The AuDHD profile is defined by competing neurological needs that can create significant internal conflict. Key contradictions include:
The need for routine and predictability (autism) in conflict with the need for novelty and
stimulation (ADHD).
Social exhaustion and sensory overwhelm (autism) in conflict with loneliness and desire
for connection.
Perfectionism and high standards (autism) in conflict with procrastination, task initiation
failure, and inconsistency (ADHD).
Deep, sustained special interest focus (autism) interrupted by ADHD-driven distractibility
and difficulty sustaining attention on non-preferred aspects of those same interests.”
I feel like this isn’t a real thing. What you described is how I feel and how I would describe the vast majority of the people I know. The people that I wouldn’t say fit these behaviors I would consider clearly have some other mental disorder.
Maybe I’m in a bubble of people like me? Idk it just seems like the default behavior…
Yup. Tiny projects that finish fast for autism, long-term projects with digressions for the ADHD. Permission to go weird occasionally and do a deep dive on something novel for both.
I notice all the social cues on multiple levels and I’ve decided that knowing that stuff is only useful on a subconscious level that I’m not even aware of. So I just trust my gut.
I’m terrible at reading cues but I somehow developed the ability to identify every situation where I might be missing a cue. I then try to guess what it is. It works well enough that I dare say I’m now even better than neurotypicals at this in any situation I’m already familiar with. Sadly it doesn’t work the other way around: people still extrapolate a hundred different wrong conclusions from every little thing I say.
Yes, and I almost always say or do the most awkward shit in response to my overanalysis of the interaction. Then I beat myself up about it for anywhere between 24 hours and 20 years
“[The DSM-V states] that an autism diagnosis requires persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following: deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, and in developing, maintaining and understanding relationships.”
A. Persistent difficulties in the social use of verbal and nonverbal communication as manifested by all
of the following:
Deficits in using communication for social purposes, such as greeting and sharing
information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.
Impairment of the ability to change communication to match context or the needs of the
listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on the playground, talking
differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.
Difficulties following rules for conversation and storytelling, such as taking turns in
conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and
nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.
Difficulties understanding what is not explicitly stated (e.g., making inferences) and
nonliteral or ambiguous meanings of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple
meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).
So, I’m not a diagnostician, but if you have above average ability to read social cues, then that sure sounds like it excludes a diagnosis of autism.
If anyone has information from an authoritative source that explicitly says otherwise then I’d be interested to see it, thanks
To me, this meme explains the internal workings of some autistic people. What you see on the surface is a person unable to respond in a socially appropriate way. Underneath it could be a deficit in reading social cues or an overload of social cues (which is explained here). The latter is more common in AuDHD - the combo of autism and ADHD. The DSM-5 is way behind the times and does not recognize AuDHD as its own thing. Hell, before 2013, having austism would rule out ADHD and vice versa.
So, I’m not a diagnostician, but if you have above average ability to read social cues, then that sure sounds like it excludes a diagnosis of autism.
I’m glad you disqualified your opinion before you shared it because ability for reading cues is a very narrow aspect of what could contribute to difficult social interactions.
Some of us develop a heightened kind of vigilance for social cues because of how we’ve been punished for our natural lack of understanding them, and that doesn’t necessarily confer ANY ability to effectively act on those cues appropriately in the way we ought to.
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I learned that I’m the “don’t notice cues” type, but I learned to (kinda) read a room. After reading rooms for a while, I realized it was bullshit and started brazenly defying the stupid ones. It’s very fun to openly challenge management, btw
You have cptsd too?
“I’m an empath”
> Looks inside
> Childhood trauma
Ain’t nothing powers empathy than a keen sense of right and wrong
Or a moral injury
Something I discovered when I started putting actual effort into masking was that the universal social cues, that were well understood by basically everyone else, were in fact neither universal nor well understood by everyone else.
A list of social cues would be helpful. You should write a book.
Dale Carnegie beat me to it
The famous grifter? I just heard a podcast about him! https://www.iheart.com/podcast/867-if-books-could-kill-104279346/episode/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-298115714
Don’t really do podcasts (or anything but text), but that sounds interesting. Would you be so kind as to summarise?
Happy to, but i would need ti listen to it again first to remember the details. There are some books and other texts listed there as references if you’re interested in following those.
None of the resources seem particularly connected to calling him a grifter, though. The last article is the only one that has anything like a negative title, and the contents themselves are quite neutral.
Maybe? Don’t really know anything besides reading the book. Nonetheless, one of the main attributes of a grifter is the ability to read people, and his advice works, so.
How I survived this unwelcome gift of insight:
This is called hypervigilance as a trauma response
I thought I was, now I just listen to my heart and do what comes to me, forget all the social business, I’m a good person and tired of second guessing myself
Same. Getting older helped a lot. Giving way fewer fucks now!
I’ve been trying to articulate this for years now but couldn’t string together those words so efficiently
Record yourself in a social situation and then play it back a week later. Cringe. Repeat.
I am in this picture and i dont like it
You think you see all those things. Not all of what you think you see is true.
Similar, I think because I have ADHD and Autism or something of that nature. I can never tell where the line between the two is TBH.
I’m AuDHD too. It can be difficult to say the least.
This is from my assessment training manual:
“The AuDHD profile is defined by competing neurological needs that can create significant internal conflict. Key contradictions include:
The need for routine and predictability (autism) in conflict with the need for novelty and stimulation (ADHD).
Social exhaustion and sensory overwhelm (autism) in conflict with loneliness and desire for connection.
Perfectionism and high standards (autism) in conflict with procrastination, task initiation failure, and inconsistency (ADHD).
Deep, sustained special interest focus (autism) interrupted by ADHD-driven distractibility and difficulty sustaining attention on non-preferred aspects of those same interests.”
Sounds like they were writing a story about me in there.
Good luck on your journey!
Damn, here I was thinking I was neurotypical and it turns out I may be the bastard child of autism and ADHD. What a plot twist.
I feel like this isn’t a real thing. What you described is how I feel and how I would describe the vast majority of the people I know. The people that I wouldn’t say fit these behaviors I would consider clearly have some other mental disorder.
Maybe I’m in a bubble of people like me? Idk it just seems like the default behavior…
We’re self-selecting to gather together for some reason.
Congratulations with your diagnosis
Yup. Tiny projects that finish fast for autism, long-term projects with digressions for the ADHD. Permission to go weird occasionally and do a deep dive on something novel for both.
I notice all the social cues on multiple levels and I’ve decided that knowing that stuff is only useful on a subconscious level that I’m not even aware of. So I just trust my gut.
I’m terrible at reading cues but I somehow developed the ability to identify every situation where I might be missing a cue. I then try to guess what it is. It works well enough that I dare say I’m now even better than neurotypicals at this in any situation I’m already familiar with. Sadly it doesn’t work the other way around: people still extrapolate a hundred different wrong conclusions from every little thing I say.
Yes, and I almost always say or do the most awkward shit in response to my overanalysis of the interaction. Then I beat myself up about it for anywhere between 24 hours and 20 years
Involuntarily rendered muted or, occasionally, enraged.
I just keep overthinking what to say or ask to be polite so I end up being quiet and looking like I was having bad time.
From what I’ve read, having a deficit in social communication is a core definitional symptom.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6105175/
https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnostic-criteria-dsm-5
https://www.autismalert.org/uploads/PDF/INFO–DSM%205%20Diagnostic%20Criteria.pdf
Exact text of the DSM-V on autism:
of the following:
information, in a manner that is appropriate for the social context.
listener, such as speaking differently in a classroom than on the playground, talking differently to a child than to an adult, and avoiding use of overly formal language.
conversation, rephrasing when misunderstood, and knowing how to use verbal and nonverbal signals to regulate interaction.
nonliteral or ambiguous meanings of language (e.g., idioms, humor, metaphors, multiple meanings that depend on the context for interpretation).
So, I’m not a diagnostician, but if you have above average ability to read social cues, then that sure sounds like it excludes a diagnosis of autism.
If anyone has information from an authoritative source that explicitly says otherwise then I’d be interested to see it, thanks
To me, this meme explains the internal workings of some autistic people. What you see on the surface is a person unable to respond in a socially appropriate way. Underneath it could be a deficit in reading social cues or an overload of social cues (which is explained here). The latter is more common in AuDHD - the combo of autism and ADHD. The DSM-5 is way behind the times and does not recognize AuDHD as its own thing. Hell, before 2013, having austism would rule out ADHD and vice versa.
Understatement of the year.
I’m glad you disqualified your opinion before you shared it because ability for reading cues is a very narrow aspect of what could contribute to difficult social interactions.
Some of us develop a heightened kind of vigilance for social cues because of how we’ve been punished for our natural lack of understanding them, and that doesn’t necessarily confer ANY ability to effectively act on those cues appropriately in the way we ought to.
Seconded.
Yay I’m not alone!
Wait, is this a real thing?
Kind of. Lots of false positives and confirmation bias is involved, and it aligns more with anxiety disorders ("hyper-awareness") than ASD.
Can some people describe an example of this, because i can’t relate to it in the slightest.