Sorry to interject, but the Ukrainian News Network is an independent outlet that exists since 2007, is one of the 10 most visited sites in Ukraine, and both the founder and the Editor in Chief have (after a quick check, let me know if you have evidence to refute that) no obvious connections to anything political.
The Article itself is also pretty factual. Romanias military has the same issue that other militaries have: Russian soldiers are undertrained if they were trained at all, drones are cheap, therefore some dumb guy in a hole in the ground loses his heading and crosses into the airspace of another nation. The default methods to shoot aerial threats down are not cheap. AIM-9X is expensive and so are fighter jet flight hours.
I propose to Romania the same thing Ukraine is doing: get a good Turboprop with a pilot and a gunner, and shoot them down WW I-style. It doesn’t get much cheaper than that.
Edit: just to save you the read (although it might be worth it), this chuds main complaint seems to be that russian propaganda isn’t as liked as ukrainian news which might contain propaganda. Either ignore or block him, like i did after this useless exchange.
Yeah, i read that some of the Shaheds have been upgraded with anti-air munitions. There’s not much you can do except use interceptor drones or a missile of your own - at least in the last case it’s a 1:1 trade in Anti-Air missiles, making it financially sensible.
My criticism is not about the news outlet itself, even if, as the earlier responder to my comment pointed out, they make bold and unsourced claims, which is bad journalism practice, even if very common nowadays.
My point is that every day this sub is bombarded with news about the war coming from ukrainian outlets, which will be of course extremely partial, as they have to be if they want to keep writing under martial law.
I never see a russian domain posting news here because they would be rightfully considered unreliable. I’m amazed that instead every single ukrainian website is allowed here even if it’s clear propaganda (euromaidanpress the worst offender) that uses as sources almost exclusively communication from the government or the state apparatus. We are being bombarded with one sided news that come directly from the Ukrainian state. That’s not less propaganda because we are sympathetic with the country that it’s producing it.
I just hoped that at least here there would be more attention, care and quality of the discussion.
I understand that we all are targets of propaganda. But the facts laid down in the article are just common sense for everyone that has interest in military things. Russia doesn’t care (they didn’t even before the war - intruding into NATO airspace to measure reaction times was a common occurrence back then, although i am sure NATO did something similar), drones are cheap and violate airspace, Air-to-Air Missiles cost 10-100 times what the drone costs.
I can’t see your earlier responder, which means he is from the fully Putin-pilled .ml instances - the only thing outside of a handful of single users i have on my blocklist. I don’t see what he wrote, but I advise you to take whatever they told you with a grain of salt - these are the instances that have proven themselves again and again as authoritarian sockpuppets.
I follow what happens on the battlefield in Ukraine on the regular, and the difference between the two sides is sourcing. If Ukraine claims to have destroyed an armored assault (just as they did 2 days ago), you get video evidence of the whole thing delivered with it. (could still be faked, i agree). Russia on the other side claims they have taken over Kostyantynivka months ago - such claims simply do not survive contact with reality, because in that case they would be hitting their own positions with glide bombs on purpose.
This leads to an easily understandable consequence: If one side only lies (or has delusions), and the other side tries to be as transparent as they can in a war situation, independent reporting will take communication from Ukraine a lot more serious than the unverifiable lies the Kremlin produces. Add to this that free press in Russia is defacto non-existent (the so called “mil-bloggers” of russia are very often FSB assets and just another arm of the Kremlins propaganda machinery designed to collect data on the most dangerous part of civilians to the regime - those that are interested in the war and might disagree with it), while it definitely exists in Ukraine; This situation makes russian sources nearly unusable.
It is not the fault of Ukrainian news outlets that Russian reporting can’t be used to offer a different viewpoint - that well was poisoned by Putins clique themselves.
You are still presenting a very partial viewpoint, where Ukrainian outles are considered fair and attempting to be transparent while the other sode doesn’t. I’m very interested and study “military things” and i have studied this conflict for about 7 years now, so i hope i can bring a useful viewpoint.
If you actually want to study a conflict or conflicts in general, it’s fundamental to be as close as poasible to the sources and unserstand the problem of uncritically accepting the viewpoint coming from one of the two belligerants.
Labelling people from an entire instance “putinist” is already a red flag for me. I’ve been called putinist a million time just because i invite people to have a more accademic and historical-based approach to this and other conflicts. My opinion of Putin doesn’t seem to interest to anyone, if i don’t glorify Ukraine and agree with every piece of propaganda they push, i’m definitely with the ebemy.
A great example is the Institute for the study of war, which is the main source for western media about Ukraine. They are a huge propaganda machine that sell themselves as neutral but it’s an absolutely pro-ukraine source. I read their reports almost daily and they tought me a great deal of the power of propaganda in war times. A great example is the recent worldwide celebration for Russia apparently not gaining as much terrain as they used to and even Ukrain gaining some. This is all over the news, but when you go look it up you find out that this reversion on the battlefield happen when the ISW added a new item to their maps: “russian infiltrations”. Now if they see only few soldiers advancing in an area is not considered an advancement, but an infiltration, which doesn’t get reported in the maps (edit: i meant to say in the final calculation of the kilometers lost/gained, not maps). No newspaper seems to be interested in pointing this out to clarify the data they give us, the same way as nobody mention that the sources of the ISW are for the almost totality either the Ukrainian defense ministry or telegram channels affiliated with combating units. None of these sources will give reliable or objective information.
I understand not trusting russian news, i don’t trudt them either, but i found way more interesting to stufy the discrepancies in the sources we are presented as reliable.
Dude, the allegiance of the .ml instances to Putins and Xi’s authoritarianism is not some kind of secret or a bias of mine, it’s been in the open for years now and is well documented. Look it up at yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com - it’s mostly not even worth posting about it anymore there because it’s simply a matter of fact and expected of them. Still, i have to recognize that the lemmy devs, even if they are seemingly incapable of separating funds for lemmy.ml and lemmy development, keep the politics out of the platform itself - i applaud them for that, even if their financial decisions mean i cannot provide funds for them.
Lets switch it up: What other viewpoint would you like to be represented? The reporting i watch is very critical about the situation regarding Fedorov getting removed, it’s calling out drone strikes on gas stations in russia with civilians present as war crimes, it’s calling for investigations into the corruption that seems to surround Zelensky. It doesn’t get more transparent than that in a war situation.
It doesn’t get more transparent than that in a war situation.
But all the things you listed don’t seem to have anything to do with the progress in the battlefield, but more with the politics that surround them. There are way more diverse interests when it comes to that. It’s not as important as showing Ukraine as the winning part in the war, which is fundamental to keep the public opinion on their side and therefor continue the stream of funds and armaments toward Ukraine.
I don’t know what reporting you “watch” i just hope it’s not some random youtuber, but instead you are using accademical sources or at least their methodology.
What other viewpoint would you like to be represented?
Don’t get me wrong. Anyone who studied history and a bit of military history know that propaganda from both sides is core to every single conflict that ever happened in the world. It’s natural and expected that Ukrainian propaganda is pushed ad nauseam to all allies countries in the conflict. This worked very well, because if you dare to doubt it you are immediately called a putinist, so the conversation die there. Look at propaganda posters from WWI and WWII of all sides and you will see a lot of similarities with today’s narrative or even better, look how Napoleon was presented in european propaganda in the 19th century.
Personally, i would really like that people would learn how to inform themselves, and i would like that more voice would be given to accademic experts or people that study war for a living. Instead we hear only politicians and what is convenient to hear: a lot of drones appear across Europe, everyone immediately assume they are Russian and that’s what get pushed in the news for days, but then when the military apparatus (so relatively disconnected from the political goals of the country) of some of the most anti-russian countries, like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians, that information get posted only on specialised outlets or maximum a couple of lines in a single newspaper to never be mentioned again. Nobody seems also to care that several intelligence agencies of multiple countries (again Poland and Latvia in primis) keep saying that there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe, but still, this is not the message that we receive by our politicians and news, because it’s not politically convenient. Instead anything that gives the feeling that Russia could attack europe any second get amplified out of proportions. Isn’t the aim more than clear there?
People are not making informed choices and the information they receive is carefully crafted to go in a single direction. As i said this has been normal in every conflict that ever happend. Also the thing of thinlking ours is good propaganda and theirs is bad propaganda is regular stuff during a war. I’m personally very worried because nuclear war is right behind the corner.
there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe
It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it’s neighbors for the last decades, and dark money channels to far right parties in many EU countries have been exposed; It’s hard to believe that they didn’t eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.
like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians
For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn’t be an issue to provide?
Also, I started out with the superior sourcing of battlefield reports, and then delivered evidence to support that there are youtubers with millions of subscribers out there that are critical of what is happening in ukraine, even if they still want them to win. I covered both the political arena and the battlefield itself.
As I said, even if you go out of your way and now start to provide sources, after this guy spewed all the indoctrinated bullshit about this war without providing any themself, it‘s more likely you will get more excuses, more downvotes and more bad faith answers.
There are analysts, not necessarily communist, that still try to understand the dynamics of international geopolitics, that will say, that this is a proxy war fought between NATO and Russia (and China), you‘ll need to zoom out and leave the pure militarist perspective.
Btw, one of the triggers is actually calling it a proxy war, but since this guy blocked the whole instance my account is on, he‘ll be spared.
Dunno, there‘s John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, German Foreign Policy, Neutrality studies, Breakthrough News, maybe Novara News. Either way, you’ll have a hard time finding reliably consistent analysis on mainstream media.
But IMO, you will get a better understanding of these conflicts and what‘s up with the people around here, if you open up towards Historical Materialism, which is the Marxist scientific approach to economy and class analysis.
It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it’s neighbors for the last decades
Every single country in the world has been doing this since the invention of politics. the US has literally military bases in most countries, but you don’t seem as worried about them despite they are the one who waged infinite wars for the past 70 years.
It’s hard to believe that they didn’t eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.
It’s easier to believe when you look at the history of Russia, their claims (believable or not, their claims is their justifications toward their own people, so they have to stick to those). the fact that attacking an alliance of 30 countries is insane and unsellable to the Russians, that a War with europe will cut completely disrupt commerce and that will be devastating for the Russian economy itself, resulting in making Putin weaker and he definitely doesn’t want that. Some more: Russia has spent billions in resources to build economical ties with Europe, like the north stream. It’s unplausible that at the same time they plotted to attack the very alliance they spent decades building encomic ties with.
For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn’t be an issue to provide?
Your skeptic tone seems to give for assumed that my sources are unreliable. Fair enough, i just wish you would apply the same skepticism also to the news you like. Anyway:
The russian drone that hit the polish house and killed two people that was pushed for days on EU news? Was actually a polish missile
The damaging of the residential building in Wyryki caused a scandal domestically, with Prime Minister Donald Tusk being accused of attempting to cover up that the damage was caused by a Polish missile; furthermore, President Karol Nawrocki and the National Security Bureau had allegedly not been informed of the Polish origin of the missile.[42]
While there is no doubt that some Russian drones are jammed and fall on NATO or EU countries. There is no proof, only political speculation, about these drones being sent on purpose by Russia to attack. What we know for sure is that, so far, the drones that created real damages were all Ukrainian. You are free to justify this, but changing the facts because more convenient that way is propaganda.
There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here. I live in one of those countries, and family members of mine have been fucking brainwashed by this style of propaganda to the point where they support far-right parties which want Ukraine to just roll over and die.
I am no friend of the USA. But nothing the USA does makes anything Russia is doing any better - An Eye for an Eye is fucking stupid, regardless of context - it only serves to prolong conflicts. Since NATO is allied with the USA, joint military operations on EU soil are a matter of fact - at least until Trump finally withdraws from NATO, which is something i can’t wait to see.
They are already saying they are fighting NATO! They proclaimed that pretty early into their SVO. They are also telling their population they are fighting a “shadow cabal”, something like the crap the nazis said about the jews. I ask you: If a regime stoops so low to use the same crap that the nazis did to manufacture consent, is it different from the nazis?
The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked. The pricing increases for energy and heating were a major factor for the increasingly high polling of far-right groups who promised to get us cheaper carbohydrates. I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.
Regarding your citations of drone strikes:
On 23 March 2026, a Ukrainian drone crashed near Lake Lavysas in the Varėna district of Lithuania. The Centre for Eastern Studies reported that the drone likely veered off course during an attack on the Russian oil terminal in Primorsk, possibly as a result of Russian electronic warfare measures.
In Estonia, one drone struck the chimney of the Auvere power station, about 2 km from the Russian border. The Estonian government said there were no injuries and no damage affecting the station’s operation.[3] According to the Centre for Eastern Studies, the incident did not disrupt energy transmission, and the intended target may have been Ust-Luga.
In Latvia, a drone crashed in the village of Dobročina in Krāslava Municipality. The Centre for Eastern Studies said the Latvian and Estonian incidents were likely caused by similar factors and that the drones may also have been intended for Ust-Luga
On 29 March 2026, Finnish authorities reported a suspected territorial violation by unmanned aerial vehicles in the southeast of the country. The Finnish Air Force identified one of the drones as a Ukrainian AN-196, while two drones fell in eastern Finland near Kouvola.[13][14]
The following day, Reuters reported that the Ukrainian drone found north of Kouvola had carried an unexploded warhead, which Finnish authorities destroyed in a controlled detonation. Ukraine apologised for the incident and said that no Ukrainian drones had been directed towards Finland, attributing the deviation to likely Russian electronic interference.[15]
Electronic warfare can make drones go off course. Thats nothing new, and Russia even jams areas where they shouldn’t be doing it; Russia is trying to fuck with GPS all over Europe, and Kaliningrad is a big fucking ECM station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn’t sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.
Your sources have been read, and were found to be lacking to support your standpoint. You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn’t any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.
There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here.
You are using one of the biggest AMERICAN scandal to say that Russia is doing the same. Do you see the issue here?
Electronic warfare can make drones go off course
Yes, that’s exactly my point. the drones that we are being told are just a signal of an impending military attack from Russia, most of the times are just jammed Ukrainians drones
Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn’t sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.
Again you are just parroting a viewpoint that it’s just an opinion and pure speculation. No fact proves that it was a deliberate attack.
They are already saying they are fighting NATO!
NATO countries are providing to Ukraine weapons, ammunitions, intelligence, specialised troops (for the pointing system of some air defence systems), fundings, GPS and target data. Doesn’t seem so crazy for me that they are saying they are fightning NATO. Equipare that to the possibility of Russia actively attacking a NATO country is a choice based on your feelings, not really a fact.
The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked.
So they wanted to make addicted to their gas and oil so they could declare war to us later and stop that commerce entirely? i don’t see the logic
I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.
So Russia has built strong economic ties with the EU so that when Russia would attack the EU (so basically NATO), the EU will stay silent and let them do? This is literally nonsense.
You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn’t any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.
I engaged in this conversation because i assumed an open mindset and an academic approach towards the issue. You ask for sources but the only one you provide is a youtube video and based on the flimsiness of your claims, that’s probably the maximum extent at which you “study” conflicts. Then you end the speech with a pathetic tirade over nazis to show how though you are and obviously hinting at the fact that, at one point you had to say it, i’m pro-russia in your mind. I really try to have a discussion that doesn’t end in a toddler-level conversation or people just choosing a faction like if it was a footbal team, but if this is the level of the conversation i don’t see benefits in continuing it.
Ok mate, were done here. You are a fucking tankie in disguise who was sealioning from the beginning, and i won’t engage with that crap anymore. Crawl back to your .ml friends and boast about how you wasted everyones time here.
This comment shows your real colours and how actually shallow you are. You don’t have anything to back up your claims, you say at the same time that the drones are russian jammed and that they are a deliberate attack to test defenses. You don’t realise that a lot of people having a feeling doesn’t transform that feeling on a fact. Especially if that feeling is carefully crafted by a gigantic media machine.
Easier for you to call me Tankie, Russia-friendly, even nazi even if the only thing to back this up is that i disagree with your “analysis”. You are just the result of a sick society where people are tought that ther opinion always matters even when based on other people’s opinion only and when confronted can only shut the door and close themselves in their own bubble. That’s ok, i hope you people will not drag us all to doom thanks to your armchair analysis based on a youtube video.
Hey frustrated friend, I’ve been commenting in this thread in your support, trying to give you a more experienced perspective on this community. But as it stands, my instance lemmy.ml has been defederated from your instance infosec.pub, so you’re not able to see any posts or comments from that instance (although it’s the main dev instance).
Here’s a link to your comment thread via the lemmy.world instance where you can see all comments.
Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community and as it turned out, looking at the ending of your conversation with Wildmimic (which himself has blocked the lemmy.ml instance, so he couldn’t see any of my commentary either), and the tangential discussions I provoked, I think sadly I’ve been proven right.
In my comments I also provided you with some ideas on where to get good information about the geopolitics of this war, explicitly non-communist, as the political thought of Marxism is not needed to deconstruct the dynamics (although, it’s the best approach over all, but that’s just my experience).
Ya, anyway, just wanted to let you know. Doesn’t matter if you care or not, but now you got the full picture of the conversation. Have a nice day and don’t let you get dragged down by these people, you’ve done nothing wrong.
Hey thanks for reaching out. I had a personal lemmy instance few years ago, but then life changed and i abandoned it. This thing of communities defederating each others for ridiculus reasons it’s really embarassing and annoying, i think i’ll go back to make my own instance because being able to see only part of the conversation is absurd.
Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community
I was aware of this :) my point was not to try to convince the person i’m interact with, but to show the people that are reading that there is a good and a bad way to study and analyze conflicts. Hopefully some reader got something out of it. I expect and don’t mind the downvotes.
Thanks for the links and for the suggestions, they are appreciated. I’ll take a look later today. Have a great day and thanks for caring
Sadly, you‘ll hardly find the discussion you‘re longing for on here.
lemmy.world has an extreme western bias and is intolerant towards voices critical of the west.
Whatever narrative is the currently one preferred from the Zeitgeist, will get (partially pro-actively) amplified here. Arguing for the genocidal practices of Israel and excusing any kind of support from US and European states is still accepted. Being critical, doubtful or in opposition to the Ukraine war is frowned upon and will get you called names.
Repeating islamophobe, sinophobe and russophobe stereotypes is part of the etiquette.
Yes, I’m a Magician, let me try summoning some of this stuff with this spell:
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own. The Ukrainian people will have to suffer as long as it takes, as several US and European politicians have acknowledged. This is the goal, so the US can focus on the indo-pacific and ultimately, together encircle China, the main enemy, as stated in the US National Security Strategy papers 2022 and 2026. But alas, accepting that US and EU are the problem for world peace would also mean dropping the nationalist rose glasses. Or actually reading this kind of stuff.
You realize that Russia started the war, right? I agree that it is used by Western nations to get a shot at weakening Russia now that it’s going and that the US does not want peace but neither does Russia
Okay, cool. You also realize that war is an ultima ratio, right? You surely also agree, that history didn’t start on 24 February 2022 or February 2014. Man this feels like “history didn’t start on Oct 7th” all over again.
Do you also agree, that the US and the EU did have geopolitical agendas and plans long before the Krim was annexed and do you also agree, that these plans where worked at and pushed for in the real world? And could these plans involve forcing Russia into a situation where they either have NATO military on their main border towards Western Europe or act to protect their sphere of influence?
Or – do you want to tell me, that US/EU only started acting after Russia involved itself physically in Ukraine?
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own
Yes, it’s all NATO’s fault that Russia decided to invade Ukraine.
This is a war started by russia. Which russia continues. Yes, it’s a proxy war. That much is obvious. But the reason for it is russia. Not NATO trying to weaken russia. Unless you’re trying to claim that NATO started the war somehow. And if you claim that russia was forced to start the war because NATO was encroaching on their territory then you’re showing your true colors. Or you’re putting all of the blame on the prolonging on NATO. If your argument is that this is NATO’s fault because they’re supporting Ukraine then you’re showing you’re true colors again. And if you’re not, then what’s your argument?
Doomed if I do, doomed if I don’t. Now isn’t that a great situation.
Tell me, what it means to show my “true colors”? You mean when my own analysis and knowledge of this war comes to the conclusion, that yes, it’s straight up a NATO instigated war, then what? I’m a tankie? A putin troll? You do realize for one, that this is a childish reaction and also that it’s a widely accepted perspective, right? Yes, I identify the West as the main malevolent player, but that doesn’t mean I side with Putin or excuse the war or anything. That logical leap is just dishonest badmouthing. But that’s what you want to do, if you talk about “true colors”, right? Pure cowardice.
Have you read the Russia and China parts of the US NSS papers I cited earlier? What do you conclude from that?
Well, first of all, the US is not NATO. So those papers relate to the US more than they relate to NATO. Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started. And how many had russia? Pretty sure russia wins that competition. So yeah, I think it’s fair that russia’s neighbours ask for help to defend themselves when they look at that track record.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
And since you really don’t need to be a Communist or Putin-Troll to have a more sober perspective on this war, you could also just learn from people like John Mearsheimer, a so-called neorealist, western political scientist based in NY, who actually just started a YT-Channel of all things. And in his first proper video, he explains his perspective on the origins of the war in Ukraine.
If you believe it’s “sober” to say that the war started in 2022 and not in 2014 when russia annexed Crimea, yeah, I guess you could agree with his perspective. I guess what’s generally believed only matters when it aligns with what you believe and doesn’t when it goes against it.
We’re not talking about believing. We’re talking about what is. “When did the war start” is not as relevant as you make it out to be. It’s just besides the point.
Of course it’s relevant. Because it’s russian propaganda. The war started in 2014. If he pretends it didn’t, it’s because he’s looking at it from putin’s frame. Like with israel and Palestine where israel tries to pretend everything started on October 7th.
Well guess what? russia’s been a shit neighbor since freaking moscow was founded…Ask any of them. So if you blame nato for the fact that the neighbors ask for help with defense, then… Yeah.. Hell, they’re shit to their own fucking population, let alone neighbors… It’s no surprise.
So russia annexed Crimea, russia sent troops to Donbas but it’s still american imperialism. So there’s no both sides are bad, there’s no individual thought… It’s full on “the evil west”…. At least the answer to all problems is simple… I envy you.
The US is the dictating force of NATO, without the US there would be no NATO, claiming otherwise is either cope or ignorance. Yes, there are factions in NATO, but ultimately NATO does what the US wants. The US is the world hegemon and their NATO friends mere junior partners. So naturally, US foreign policy is extremely relevant to NATO policy and if you’ve actually read the papers, which you haven’t 😝, you’d find out the following:
The US National Security Strategy (2022) says its top priority is “out-competing China and Constraining Russia” and that a key goal is that “Russia’s conventional military will have been weakened” (p.23, p.26). Which is exactly what they’re working on by letting Ukraine bleed out for their interests.
Let’s stop pretending that any of the western nation states are actually interested in the well-being of the Ukrainian (or their own) people. The US and several European states are actively deporting men that fled the war, only for them to be put in suicide squads at the front. These states do not give a shit about the people, these are wars in the interest of the capitalist class. And this is clearly not an idea originating from the invasion. But I’m not going to collect 20 more sources, that which I think you won’t read or even accept as valid. These comments already are quite time consuming.
By now, the US National Security Strategry (2026) shifts to “prioritize deterring China” and says NATO allies should take “primary responsibility for Europe’s conventional defense” (p.10, p.11). And we know, that defense is an euphemism for “defending the interests of capital, by using force”. Well, I do, not sure about you.
In practice this means, that the European NATO countries are supposed to fight the eastern flank by their own, hence the remilitarization and extreme anti-Russia propaganda, while the US can focus to build up militarily for a potential war with China.
Overall, it’s an offensive, belligerent strategy to remain the world’s sole super power by force. China with their economic strategy is taking over, the US is trying to stay on top. Part of that strategy is to isolate China by first disintegrating Russia. Some mad men even talk about the “decolonization of Russia”, which means to Balkanise the huge state into lots of smaller, easier to handle US puppet regimes.
And that’s just the official strategy, nothing covert, no shenanigans, just the immediate concrete outlook into their general future plans, supported by several scholars and analysts.
Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Ya, nobody needs to proclaim “I support US imperialism”, but most of you proactively do just that. To never actually deal with the realities of how and why the Empire acts on the world stage. Instead what always happens is to only circlejerk on the West’s enemies and attack any critique of their beloved nation states, which is in practise doing the deeds for US Imperialism. And that’s what’s happening on most .world and .feddit comms. A bubble, where even self-prescribed leftists, anarchists and pseudo-communists will defend the wars of the Empire. It’s sickening.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
No, not a popularity contest, but I call to realize that there’s thinking people outside of the Western sphere of influence. It’s nice that it’s “debatable” in Western circles, but that’s not the reality world wide over and us here being free to debate it in the west doesn’t change the dynamics, because it’s not our wars, it’s the wars of the capitalist class, we are the human material they use to fight them.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started.
This isn’t a competition on who started how many wars. I also don’t know why you feel the need to construct your demand in such a specific way. When NATO “intervened” in Bosnia, they actually started an imperial war out of geopolitical strategic interests. Just because you’re getting sold a different story, doesn’t make it a reality. Every NATO operation is one too many.
I’ve got a serious reading suggestion for you: NATO: The Most Dangerous Organisation on Earth. It’s a great dossier, I’ve read it and found it really interesting and conclusive, I recommend!
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
I do this, because these communities of my fellow people are being strangled by western war propaganda. Like, actually all you get is western, state capitalist aligned media. You’ll have several accounts with the sole purpose to spread anti-Russia and anti-China sentiment and propaganda articles – never ever once stuff that seriously aims to understand the world, only ever to divide and conquer. Just check out accounts such as Hotznplotzn, Sepia, Randomname or Tardigrade, these are not normal users, they have a specific mission and are tolerated and protected by the admins and they will defend every dumb shit, as long as it’s against the western adversaries. Discussion that veers off the allowed path will get you ostracised, just look at the discussion between Wildmimic and LeoDalPozzo, where Wildmimic basically rage quit because they had nothing, zero, nada. Their indoctrinated misinformation came to it’s logical conclusion, by calling their opponent a Putin troll and tankie, not dissimilar to what you want to do, if we’re being honest.
I don’t do this because I’m pro anything or paid from anyone. It’s because I see how fenced in the breadth of opinions in these comms are and it’s making all of you into hawkish war lemmings, not into critical thinkers forming their own opinions. You eat what you are being fed and start to hate what the people that want war want you to hate, so it’s easier to mobilize you to the front, or at least make them help attacking those, that don’t want war.
Case in point: you fearing anything that’s not trotting the western path and deeming it “Russian propaganda”, forgetting, that Russia too is a sovereign state fighting in defense of their interests. To form a better understanding of the world, one would have to avoid only ever drinking from the same feeding tube. I’ve been there, myself. In the beginning I was cheering for Ukraine, but with the clearly despicable role of the West in regards to Palestine and the abhorrent role our media plays to create a completely alternative reality, I started to actually explore for myself. You should, too.
Not sure, if I’ll answer your comment about the leaders in palaces and North Korea in this other thread, as I’m not even sure you wanna hear it. Usually, people just want to vent, because they can’t stand the dissonance. Do you just vent?
In April 2026, Prashad(their executive director) co-authored an article in Monthly Review denying that the Uyghurs were victims of genocide. The article was found to include references invented by AI and was accused by David Brophy and Brian Hoie of whitewashing Chinese government crimes.
Oh man, that‘s rude. Thank god, you found a reason to dismiss everything I wrote and choose ignorance. Is this guy now an evil genocide denier, because western media told you so and because of that it’s forbidden to look at what he (and all the people that actually did the research) wrote or ever have written? You don’t think that’s a bit dumb? Or what, he‘d paid by the enemy! Ha, I got it! Traitor!
It’s funny tho, that you found something that triggers your Pavlovian conditioning, I admit.
What’s with the part before that, if you already quote wikipedia?
(…) that he “did not believe there was reliable evidence or investigation to meet the high legal burden of genocide under international law” and that his remarks corresponded with similar statements by figures such as former UN advisor Jeffrey Sachs and the former president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars William Schabas, as well as the US State Department’s Office of the Legal Adviser.
How about you read the fucking article he wrote then. You might end up learning something. These counterpunches from western-aligned figures are to be expected. Always. Did you learn nothing from the Palestinians and the corresponding media narratives?
Btw, newbloom are a bunch of US-based Taiwanese people. This should irritate you.
The whole fucking point was, that you absolutely should inform yourself about the stuff, that runs counter to the western narrative. But then your first impulse is to go all like 🙈🙉🙊 on the slightest dissonance. You gobble up every dumb ass western narrative from actually genociding states and their spokespeople and then dismiss serious political science work trying to decipher world politics, just because it might run counter to your indoctrination.
Many claims of genocide do not present a prima facie case of the intent to destroy a group, let alone show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. They are a stratagem to enhance the claimant’s position in an inter-state or intra-state conflict. Claims about China’s Xinjiang are not based on the mass killings associated with genocide, but on birth limits for minorities in 2017-2021 that included practices previously applied to China’s Han majority for decades, plus brief family separations of a few minority children. These assertions impel Western sanctions and incite anti-Chinese sentiment but are empirically unsupported and degrade the concept of genocide.
But hey, writing “no thanks man” surely does the trick. Have good day then.
Hey, look, another pro-prc author. What a surprise. I don’t give a damn what sautman thinks should be called a genocide. Putting people in education camps is wrong and defending it is despicable even if it’s not “technically genocide”. Just because governments can get the same results by changing the methods doesn’t mean the end result isn’t the same… So I don’t need to waste my time by reading their opinions. Same reason why I don’t read that other bullshit either. There are no facts in there. At most some misinterpreted stats to make it seem like a good thing.. but it’s always just opinions. Not even new opinions.
You‘re the definition of willfully ignorant then. These people do serious research, they’ve certainly got more facts, than what you’ve read. Effectively, you do nothing but regurgitate propaganda and at the same time accuse respectable people of being some kind of stooge for the evil enemy. Do you even feel yourself? I‘m sorry to have wasted my time on you.
Just because I ignore the 10th pro PRC source doesn’t mean I’ve ignored all the previous ones and I’ve drawn my conclusions solely based on one POV. But we’ve already established in the other thread that even Wikipedia is propaganda for the evil west so you’re, right, this is a waste of time.
RetroFed
inari
Share on Mastodon
Share on Reddit
Share on WhatsApp
Sorry to interject, but the Ukrainian News Network is an independent outlet that exists since 2007, is one of the 10 most visited sites in Ukraine, and both the founder and the Editor in Chief have (after a quick check, let me know if you have evidence to refute that) no obvious connections to anything political.
The Article itself is also pretty factual. Romanias military has the same issue that other militaries have: Russian soldiers are undertrained if they were trained at all, drones are cheap, therefore some dumb guy in a hole in the ground loses his heading and crosses into the airspace of another nation. The default methods to shoot aerial threats down are not cheap. AIM-9X is expensive and so are fighter jet flight hours.
I propose to Romania the same thing Ukraine is doing: get a good Turboprop with a pilot and a gunner, and shoot them down WW I-style. It doesn’t get much cheaper than that.
Edit: just to save you the read (although it might be worth it), this chuds main complaint seems to be that russian propaganda isn’t as liked as ukrainian news which might contain propaganda. Either ignore or block him, like i did after this useless exchange.
The only problem with this approach could be, if the drone carries an AAM.
Yeah, i read that some of the Shaheds have been upgraded with anti-air munitions. There’s not much you can do except use interceptor drones or a missile of your own - at least in the last case it’s a 1:1 trade in Anti-Air missiles, making it financially sensible.
Also anti air guns (think Gepard or modern variants) or lasers - there was a talk about UK providing Ukraine a prototype, but then nothing afterwards.
My criticism is not about the news outlet itself, even if, as the earlier responder to my comment pointed out, they make bold and unsourced claims, which is bad journalism practice, even if very common nowadays. My point is that every day this sub is bombarded with news about the war coming from ukrainian outlets, which will be of course extremely partial, as they have to be if they want to keep writing under martial law. I never see a russian domain posting news here because they would be rightfully considered unreliable. I’m amazed that instead every single ukrainian website is allowed here even if it’s clear propaganda (euromaidanpress the worst offender) that uses as sources almost exclusively communication from the government or the state apparatus. We are being bombarded with one sided news that come directly from the Ukrainian state. That’s not less propaganda because we are sympathetic with the country that it’s producing it.
I just hoped that at least here there would be more attention, care and quality of the discussion.
I understand that we all are targets of propaganda. But the facts laid down in the article are just common sense for everyone that has interest in military things. Russia doesn’t care (they didn’t even before the war - intruding into NATO airspace to measure reaction times was a common occurrence back then, although i am sure NATO did something similar), drones are cheap and violate airspace, Air-to-Air Missiles cost 10-100 times what the drone costs.
I can’t see your earlier responder, which means he is from the fully Putin-pilled .ml instances - the only thing outside of a handful of single users i have on my blocklist. I don’t see what he wrote, but I advise you to take whatever they told you with a grain of salt - these are the instances that have proven themselves again and again as authoritarian sockpuppets.
I follow what happens on the battlefield in Ukraine on the regular, and the difference between the two sides is sourcing. If Ukraine claims to have destroyed an armored assault (just as they did 2 days ago), you get video evidence of the whole thing delivered with it. (could still be faked, i agree). Russia on the other side claims they have taken over Kostyantynivka months ago - such claims simply do not survive contact with reality, because in that case they would be hitting their own positions with glide bombs on purpose.
This leads to an easily understandable consequence: If one side only lies (or has delusions), and the other side tries to be as transparent as they can in a war situation, independent reporting will take communication from Ukraine a lot more serious than the unverifiable lies the Kremlin produces. Add to this that free press in Russia is defacto non-existent (the so called “mil-bloggers” of russia are very often FSB assets and just another arm of the Kremlins propaganda machinery designed to collect data on the most dangerous part of civilians to the regime - those that are interested in the war and might disagree with it), while it definitely exists in Ukraine; This situation makes russian sources nearly unusable.
It is not the fault of Ukrainian news outlets that Russian reporting can’t be used to offer a different viewpoint - that well was poisoned by Putins clique themselves.
You are still presenting a very partial viewpoint, where Ukrainian outles are considered fair and attempting to be transparent while the other sode doesn’t. I’m very interested and study “military things” and i have studied this conflict for about 7 years now, so i hope i can bring a useful viewpoint. If you actually want to study a conflict or conflicts in general, it’s fundamental to be as close as poasible to the sources and unserstand the problem of uncritically accepting the viewpoint coming from one of the two belligerants. Labelling people from an entire instance “putinist” is already a red flag for me. I’ve been called putinist a million time just because i invite people to have a more accademic and historical-based approach to this and other conflicts. My opinion of Putin doesn’t seem to interest to anyone, if i don’t glorify Ukraine and agree with every piece of propaganda they push, i’m definitely with the ebemy.
A great example is the Institute for the study of war, which is the main source for western media about Ukraine. They are a huge propaganda machine that sell themselves as neutral but it’s an absolutely pro-ukraine source. I read their reports almost daily and they tought me a great deal of the power of propaganda in war times. A great example is the recent worldwide celebration for Russia apparently not gaining as much terrain as they used to and even Ukrain gaining some. This is all over the news, but when you go look it up you find out that this reversion on the battlefield happen when the ISW added a new item to their maps: “russian infiltrations”. Now if they see only few soldiers advancing in an area is not considered an advancement, but an infiltration, which doesn’t get reported in the maps (edit: i meant to say in the final calculation of the kilometers lost/gained, not maps). No newspaper seems to be interested in pointing this out to clarify the data they give us, the same way as nobody mention that the sources of the ISW are for the almost totality either the Ukrainian defense ministry or telegram channels affiliated with combating units. None of these sources will give reliable or objective information.
I understand not trusting russian news, i don’t trudt them either, but i found way more interesting to stufy the discrepancies in the sources we are presented as reliable.
Dude, the allegiance of the .ml instances to Putins and Xi’s authoritarianism is not some kind of secret or a bias of mine, it’s been in the open for years now and is well documented. Look it up at yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com - it’s mostly not even worth posting about it anymore there because it’s simply a matter of fact and expected of them. Still, i have to recognize that the lemmy devs, even if they are seemingly incapable of separating funds for lemmy.ml and lemmy development, keep the politics out of the platform itself - i applaud them for that, even if their financial decisions mean i cannot provide funds for them.
Lets switch it up: What other viewpoint would you like to be represented? The reporting i watch is very critical about the situation regarding Fedorov getting removed, it’s calling out drone strikes on gas stations in russia with civilians present as war crimes, it’s calling for investigations into the corruption that seems to surround Zelensky. It doesn’t get more transparent than that in a war situation.
But all the things you listed don’t seem to have anything to do with the progress in the battlefield, but more with the politics that surround them. There are way more diverse interests when it comes to that. It’s not as important as showing Ukraine as the winning part in the war, which is fundamental to keep the public opinion on their side and therefor continue the stream of funds and armaments toward Ukraine.
I don’t know what reporting you “watch” i just hope it’s not some random youtuber, but instead you are using accademical sources or at least their methodology.
Don’t get me wrong. Anyone who studied history and a bit of military history know that propaganda from both sides is core to every single conflict that ever happened in the world. It’s natural and expected that Ukrainian propaganda is pushed ad nauseam to all allies countries in the conflict. This worked very well, because if you dare to doubt it you are immediately called a putinist, so the conversation die there. Look at propaganda posters from WWI and WWII of all sides and you will see a lot of similarities with today’s narrative or even better, look how Napoleon was presented in european propaganda in the 19th century.
Personally, i would really like that people would learn how to inform themselves, and i would like that more voice would be given to accademic experts or people that study war for a living. Instead we hear only politicians and what is convenient to hear: a lot of drones appear across Europe, everyone immediately assume they are Russian and that’s what get pushed in the news for days, but then when the military apparatus (so relatively disconnected from the political goals of the country) of some of the most anti-russian countries, like Latvia and Poland, say that the drones are actually almost entirely Ukranians, that information get posted only on specialised outlets or maximum a couple of lines in a single newspaper to never be mentioned again. Nobody seems also to care that several intelligence agencies of multiple countries (again Poland and Latvia in primis) keep saying that there are no signs of Russian preparing an attack to Europe, but still, this is not the message that we receive by our politicians and news, because it’s not politically convenient. Instead anything that gives the feeling that Russia could attack europe any second get amplified out of proportions. Isn’t the aim more than clear there?
People are not making informed choices and the information they receive is carefully crafted to go in a single direction. As i said this has been normal in every conflict that ever happend. Also the thing of thinlking ours is good propaganda and theirs is bad propaganda is regular stuff during a war. I’m personally very worried because nuclear war is right behind the corner.
Ok, i took your word until now, now i want proof.
It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it’s neighbors for the last decades, and dark money channels to far right parties in many EU countries have been exposed; It’s hard to believe that they didn’t eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.
For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn’t be an issue to provide?
Also, I started out with the superior sourcing of battlefield reports, and then delivered evidence to support that there are youtubers with millions of subscribers out there that are critical of what is happening in ukraine, even if they still want them to win. I covered both the political arena and the battlefield itself.
For @LeoDalPozzo@infosec.pub, as Wildmimic doesn’t even see me, so blind he is.
As I said, even if you go out of your way and now start to provide sources, after this guy spewed all the indoctrinated bullshit about this war without providing any themself, it‘s more likely you will get more excuses, more downvotes and more bad faith answers.
There are analysts, not necessarily communist, that still try to understand the dynamics of international geopolitics, that will say, that this is a proxy war fought between NATO and Russia (and China), you‘ll need to zoom out and leave the pure militarist perspective.
Btw, one of the triggers is actually calling it a proxy war, but since this guy blocked the whole instance my account is on, he‘ll be spared.
Dunno, there‘s John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, German Foreign Policy, Neutrality studies, Breakthrough News, maybe Novara News. Either way, you’ll have a hard time finding reliably consistent analysis on mainstream media.
But IMO, you will get a better understanding of these conflicts and what‘s up with the people around here, if you open up towards Historical Materialism, which is the Marxist scientific approach to economy and class analysis.
Every single country in the world has been doing this since the invention of politics. the US has literally military bases in most countries, but you don’t seem as worried about them despite they are the one who waged infinite wars for the past 70 years.
It’s easier to believe when you look at the history of Russia, their claims (believable or not, their claims is their justifications toward their own people, so they have to stick to those). the fact that attacking an alliance of 30 countries is insane and unsellable to the Russians, that a War with europe will cut completely disrupt commerce and that will be devastating for the Russian economy itself, resulting in making Putin weaker and he definitely doesn’t want that. Some more: Russia has spent billions in resources to build economical ties with Europe, like the north stream. It’s unplausible that at the same time they plotted to attack the very alliance they spent decades building encomic ties with.
Your skeptic tone seems to give for assumed that my sources are unreliable. Fair enough, i just wish you would apply the same skepticism also to the news you like. Anyway:
While there is no doubt that some Russian drones are jammed and fall on NATO or EU countries. There is no proof, only political speculation, about these drones being sent on purpose by Russia to attack. What we know for sure is that, so far, the drones that created real damages were all Ukrainian. You are free to justify this, but changing the facts because more convenient that way is propaganda.
There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here. I live in one of those countries, and family members of mine have been fucking brainwashed by this style of propaganda to the point where they support far-right parties which want Ukraine to just roll over and die.
I am no friend of the USA. But nothing the USA does makes anything Russia is doing any better - An Eye for an Eye is fucking stupid, regardless of context - it only serves to prolong conflicts. Since NATO is allied with the USA, joint military operations on EU soil are a matter of fact - at least until Trump finally withdraws from NATO, which is something i can’t wait to see.
They are already saying they are fighting NATO! They proclaimed that pretty early into their SVO. They are also telling their population they are fighting a “shadow cabal”, something like the crap the nazis said about the jews. I ask you: If a regime stoops so low to use the same crap that the nazis did to manufacture consent, is it different from the nazis?
The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked. The pricing increases for energy and heating were a major factor for the increasingly high polling of far-right groups who promised to get us cheaper carbohydrates. I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.
Regarding your citations of drone strikes:
Electronic warfare can make drones go off course. Thats nothing new, and Russia even jams areas where they shouldn’t be doing it; Russia is trying to fuck with GPS all over Europe, and Kaliningrad is a big fucking ECM station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn’t sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.
Your sources have been read, and were found to be lacking to support your standpoint. You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn’t any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.
You are using one of the biggest AMERICAN scandal to say that Russia is doing the same. Do you see the issue here?
Yes, that’s exactly my point. the drones that we are being told are just a signal of an impending military attack from Russia, most of the times are just jammed Ukrainians drones
Again you are just parroting a viewpoint that it’s just an opinion and pure speculation. No fact proves that it was a deliberate attack.
NATO countries are providing to Ukraine weapons, ammunitions, intelligence, specialised troops (for the pointing system of some air defence systems), fundings, GPS and target data. Doesn’t seem so crazy for me that they are saying they are fightning NATO. Equipare that to the possibility of Russia actively attacking a NATO country is a choice based on your feelings, not really a fact.
So they wanted to make addicted to their gas and oil so they could declare war to us later and stop that commerce entirely? i don’t see the logic
So Russia has built strong economic ties with the EU so that when Russia would attack the EU (so basically NATO), the EU will stay silent and let them do? This is literally nonsense.
I engaged in this conversation because i assumed an open mindset and an academic approach towards the issue. You ask for sources but the only one you provide is a youtube video and based on the flimsiness of your claims, that’s probably the maximum extent at which you “study” conflicts. Then you end the speech with a pathetic tirade over nazis to show how though you are and obviously hinting at the fact that, at one point you had to say it, i’m pro-russia in your mind. I really try to have a discussion that doesn’t end in a toddler-level conversation or people just choosing a faction like if it was a footbal team, but if this is the level of the conversation i don’t see benefits in continuing it.
Ok mate, were done here. You are a fucking tankie in disguise who was sealioning from the beginning, and i won’t engage with that crap anymore. Crawl back to your .ml friends and boast about how you wasted everyones time here.
Look at this coward.
This comment shows your real colours and how actually shallow you are. You don’t have anything to back up your claims, you say at the same time that the drones are russian jammed and that they are a deliberate attack to test defenses. You don’t realise that a lot of people having a feeling doesn’t transform that feeling on a fact. Especially if that feeling is carefully crafted by a gigantic media machine. Easier for you to call me Tankie, Russia-friendly, even nazi even if the only thing to back this up is that i disagree with your “analysis”. You are just the result of a sick society where people are tought that ther opinion always matters even when based on other people’s opinion only and when confronted can only shut the door and close themselves in their own bubble. That’s ok, i hope you people will not drag us all to doom thanks to your armchair analysis based on a youtube video.
Sorry to say, but: told you so.
Soviet Union, Socialism, and Western Imperialism from the great and late scholar and lecturer Michael Parenti (not a Tankie).
e: so infosec.pub is defederated, lol, ridiculous.
Hey frustrated friend, I’ve been commenting in this thread in your support, trying to give you a more experienced perspective on this community. But as it stands, my instance lemmy.ml has been defederated from your instance infosec.pub, so you’re not able to see any posts or comments from that instance (although it’s the main dev instance).
Here’s a link to your comment thread via the lemmy.world instance where you can see all comments.
Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community and as it turned out, looking at the ending of your conversation with Wildmimic (which himself has blocked the lemmy.ml instance, so he couldn’t see any of my commentary either), and the tangential discussions I provoked, I think sadly I’ve been proven right.
In my comments I also provided you with some ideas on where to get good information about the geopolitics of this war, explicitly non-communist, as the political thought of Marxism is not needed to deconstruct the dynamics (although, it’s the best approach over all, but that’s just my experience).
Ya, anyway, just wanted to let you know. Doesn’t matter if you care or not, but now you got the full picture of the conversation. Have a nice day and don’t let you get dragged down by these people, you’ve done nothing wrong.
Hey thanks for reaching out. I had a personal lemmy instance few years ago, but then life changed and i abandoned it. This thing of communities defederating each others for ridiculus reasons it’s really embarassing and annoying, i think i’ll go back to make my own instance because being able to see only part of the conversation is absurd.
I was aware of this :) my point was not to try to convince the person i’m interact with, but to show the people that are reading that there is a good and a bad way to study and analyze conflicts. Hopefully some reader got something out of it. I expect and don’t mind the downvotes.
Thanks for the links and for the suggestions, they are appreciated. I’ll take a look later today. Have a great day and thanks for caring
Sadly, you‘ll hardly find the discussion you‘re longing for on here.
lemmy.world has an extreme western bias and is intolerant towards voices critical of the west.
Whatever narrative is the currently one preferred from the Zeitgeist, will get (partially pro-actively) amplified here. Arguing for the genocidal practices of Israel and excusing any kind of support from US and European states is still accepted. Being critical, doubtful or in opposition to the Ukraine war is frowned upon and will get you called names.
Repeating islamophobe, sinophobe and russophobe stereotypes is part of the etiquette.
You must have magical vision because none of those things are in this article or the comments here.
Yes, I’m a Magician, let me try summoning some of this stuff with this spell:
The Ukraine war is a proxy war between NATO and Russia with the sole purpose to weaken Russia as long as it needs for the Europeans to militarize and take up Russia on their own. The Ukrainian people will have to suffer as long as it takes, as several US and European politicians have acknowledged. This is the goal, so the US can focus on the indo-pacific and ultimately, together encircle China, the main enemy, as stated in the US National Security Strategy papers 2022 and 2026. But alas, accepting that US and EU are the problem for world peace would also mean dropping the nationalist rose glasses. Or actually reading this kind of stuff.
Now provide your reasonable reaction.
The only reasonable response to this is to ignore it.
You‘re proving my point.
You realize that Russia started the war, right? I agree that it is used by Western nations to get a shot at weakening Russia now that it’s going and that the US does not want peace but neither does Russia
Okay, cool. You also realize that war is an ultima ratio, right? You surely also agree, that history didn’t start on 24 February 2022 or February 2014. Man this feels like “history didn’t start on Oct 7th” all over again. Do you also agree, that the US and the EU did have geopolitical agendas and plans long before the Krim was annexed and do you also agree, that these plans where worked at and pushed for in the real world? And could these plans involve forcing Russia into a situation where they either have NATO military on their main border towards Western Europe or act to protect their sphere of influence?
Or – do you want to tell me, that US/EU only started acting after Russia involved itself physically in Ukraine?
I hope you get lots of upvotes!
Yes, it’s all NATO’s fault that Russia decided to invade Ukraine.
Fuck off.
First off, noone aquitted Russia of their guilt, so stfu with this leap of logic. Second, stop being so whiney, NATO isn’t your Daddy.
This is a war started by russia. Which russia continues. Yes, it’s a proxy war. That much is obvious. But the reason for it is russia. Not NATO trying to weaken russia. Unless you’re trying to claim that NATO started the war somehow. And if you claim that russia was forced to start the war because NATO was encroaching on their territory then you’re showing your true colors. Or you’re putting all of the blame on the prolonging on NATO. If your argument is that this is NATO’s fault because they’re supporting Ukraine then you’re showing you’re true colors again. And if you’re not, then what’s your argument?
Doomed if I do, doomed if I don’t. Now isn’t that a great situation.
Tell me, what it means to show my “true colors”? You mean when my own analysis and knowledge of this war comes to the conclusion, that yes, it’s straight up a NATO instigated war, then what? I’m a tankie? A putin troll? You do realize for one, that this is a childish reaction and also that it’s a widely accepted perspective, right? Yes, I identify the West as the main malevolent player, but that doesn’t mean I side with Putin or excuse the war or anything. That logical leap is just dishonest badmouthing. But that’s what you want to do, if you talk about “true colors”, right? Pure cowardice.
Have you read the Russia and China parts of the US NSS papers I cited earlier? What do you conclude from that?
Well, first of all, the US is not NATO. So those papers relate to the US more than they relate to NATO. Nobody here is defending US imperialism. We’re not talking about that, that’s just whataboutism which always appears when russia or china is criticized. No surprise there.
Second of all, how many wars has NATO started? Not intervened in. Started. And how many had russia? Pretty sure russia wins that competition. So yeah, I think it’s fair that russia’s neighbours ask for help to defend themselves when they look at that track record.
Third, “widely accepted” is debatable. And even if it’s true, since when does popularity decide what’s fact?
And lastly, you keep repeating and are being sarcastic towards people that are avoiding russian propaganda both here and in other threads. I’m sure it could be just a coincidence, but I don’t really believe in those kinds of coincidences.
And since you really don’t need to be a Communist or Putin-Troll to have a more sober perspective on this war, you could also just learn from people like John Mearsheimer, a so-called neorealist, western political scientist based in NY, who actually just started a YT-Channel of all things. And in his first proper video, he explains his perspective on the origins of the war in Ukraine.
If you believe it’s “sober” to say that the war started in 2022 and not in 2014 when russia annexed Crimea, yeah, I guess you could agree with his perspective. I guess what’s generally believed only matters when it aligns with what you believe and doesn’t when it goes against it.
We’re not talking about believing. We’re talking about what is. “When did the war start” is not as relevant as you make it out to be. It’s just besides the point.
Of course it’s relevant. Because it’s russian propaganda. The war started in 2014. If he pretends it didn’t, it’s because he’s looking at it from putin’s frame. Like with israel and Palestine where israel tries to pretend everything started on October 7th.
Well guess what? russia’s been a shit neighbor since freaking moscow was founded…Ask any of them. So if you blame nato for the fact that the neighbors ask for help with defense, then… Yeah.. Hell, they’re shit to their own fucking population, let alone neighbors… It’s no surprise.
Dude, everything is either Chinese or Russian propaganda. Lol!
That‘s dumb. People have independent thought. You‘re looking at it from US imperialism‘s frame. Grats.
Yes, like with Israel, here the West again, tries to pretend everything started at a specific date. Correct.
The rest of your comment is just cope, sorry. I‘m shocked how true this meme rings.
So russia annexed Crimea, russia sent troops to Donbas but it’s still american imperialism. So there’s no both sides are bad, there’s no individual thought… It’s full on “the evil west”…. At least the answer to all problems is simple… I envy you.
Exclusively for you now, got a bit long, oopsie…
The US is the dictating force of NATO, without the US there would be no NATO, claiming otherwise is either cope or ignorance. Yes, there are factions in NATO, but ultimately NATO does what the US wants. The US is the world hegemon and their NATO friends mere junior partners. So naturally, US foreign policy is extremely relevant to NATO policy and if you’ve actually read the papers, which you haven’t 😝, you’d find out the following:
The US National Security Strategy (2022) says its top priority is “out-competing China and Constraining Russia” and that a key goal is that “Russia’s conventional military will have been weakened” (p.23, p.26). Which is exactly what they’re working on by letting Ukraine bleed out for their interests.
Let’s stop pretending that any of the western nation states are actually interested in the well-being of the Ukrainian (or their own) people. The US and several European states are actively deporting men that fled the war, only for them to be put in suicide squads at the front. These states do not give a shit about the people, these are wars in the interest of the capitalist class. And this is clearly not an idea originating from the invasion. But I’m not going to collect 20 more sources, that which I think you won’t read or even accept as valid. These comments already are quite time consuming.
By now, the US National Security Strategry (2026) shifts to “prioritize deterring China” and says NATO allies should take “primary responsibility for Europe’s conventional defense” (p.10, p.11). And we know, that defense is an euphemism for “defending the interests of capital, by using force”. Well, I do, not sure about you.
In practice this means, that the European NATO countries are supposed to fight the eastern flank by their own, hence the remilitarization and extreme anti-Russia propaganda, while the US can focus to build up militarily for a potential war with China.
Overall, it’s an offensive, belligerent strategy to remain the world’s sole super power by force. China with their economic strategy is taking over, the US is trying to stay on top. Part of that strategy is to isolate China by first disintegrating Russia. Some mad men even talk about the “decolonization of Russia”, which means to Balkanise the huge state into lots of smaller, easier to handle US puppet regimes.
And that’s just the official strategy, nothing covert, no shenanigans, just the immediate concrete outlook into their general future plans, supported by several scholars and analysts.
Ya, nobody needs to proclaim “I support US imperialism”, but most of you proactively do just that. To never actually deal with the realities of how and why the Empire acts on the world stage. Instead what always happens is to only circlejerk on the West’s enemies and attack any critique of their beloved nation states, which is in practise doing the deeds for US Imperialism. And that’s what’s happening on most .world and .feddit comms. A bubble, where even self-prescribed leftists, anarchists and pseudo-communists will defend the wars of the Empire. It’s sickening.
No, not a popularity contest, but I call to realize that there’s thinking people outside of the Western sphere of influence. It’s nice that it’s “debatable” in Western circles, but that’s not the reality world wide over and us here being free to debate it in the west doesn’t change the dynamics, because it’s not our wars, it’s the wars of the capitalist class, we are the human material they use to fight them.
This isn’t a competition on who started how many wars. I also don’t know why you feel the need to construct your demand in such a specific way. When NATO “intervened” in Bosnia, they actually started an imperial war out of geopolitical strategic interests. Just because you’re getting sold a different story, doesn’t make it a reality. Every NATO operation is one too many.
I’ve got a serious reading suggestion for you: NATO: The Most Dangerous Organisation on Earth. It’s a great dossier, I’ve read it and found it really interesting and conclusive, I recommend!
I do this, because these communities of my fellow people are being strangled by western war propaganda. Like, actually all you get is western,
statecapitalist aligned media. You’ll have several accounts with the sole purpose to spread anti-Russia and anti-China sentiment and propaganda articles – never ever once stuff that seriously aims to understand the world, only ever to divide and conquer. Just check out accounts such as Hotznplotzn, Sepia, Randomname or Tardigrade, these are not normal users, they have a specific mission and are tolerated and protected by the admins and they will defend every dumb shit, as long as it’s against the western adversaries. Discussion that veers off the allowed path will get you ostracised, just look at the discussion between Wildmimic and LeoDalPozzo, where Wildmimic basically rage quit because they had nothing, zero, nada. Their indoctrinated misinformation came to it’s logical conclusion, by calling their opponent a Putin troll and tankie, not dissimilar to what you want to do, if we’re being honest.I don’t do this because I’m pro anything or paid from anyone. It’s because I see how fenced in the breadth of opinions in these comms are and it’s making all of you into hawkish war lemmings, not into critical thinkers forming their own opinions. You eat what you are being fed and start to hate what the people that want war want you to hate, so it’s easier to mobilize you to the front, or at least make them help attacking those, that don’t want war.
Case in point: you fearing anything that’s not trotting the western path and deeming it “Russian propaganda”, forgetting, that Russia too is a sovereign state fighting in defense of their interests. To form a better understanding of the world, one would have to avoid only ever drinking from the same feeding tube. I’ve been there, myself. In the beginning I was cheering for Ukraine, but with the clearly despicable role of the West in regards to Palestine and the abhorrent role our media plays to create a completely alternative reality, I started to actually explore for myself. You should, too.
Not sure, if I’ll answer your comment about the leaders in palaces and North Korea in this other thread, as I’m not even sure you wanna hear it. Usually, people just want to vent, because they can’t stand the dissonance. Do you just vent?
Thetricontinental….
In April 2026, Prashad(their executive director) co-authored an article in Monthly Review denying that the Uyghurs were victims of genocide. The article was found to include references invented by AI and was accused by David Brophy and Brian Hoie of whitewashing Chinese government crimes.
No thanks man.
Oh man, that‘s rude. Thank god, you found a reason to dismiss everything I wrote and choose ignorance. Is this guy now an evil genocide denier, because western media told you so and because of that it’s forbidden to look at what he (and all the people that actually did the research) wrote or ever have written? You don’t think that’s a bit dumb? Or what, he‘d paid by the enemy! Ha, I got it! Traitor!
It’s funny tho, that you found something that triggers your Pavlovian conditioning, I admit.
What’s with the part before that, if you already quote wikipedia?
How about you read the fucking article he wrote then. You might end up learning something. These counterpunches from western-aligned figures are to be expected. Always. Did you learn nothing from the Palestinians and the corresponding media narratives?
Btw, newbloom are a bunch of US-based Taiwanese people. This should irritate you.
The whole fucking point was, that you absolutely should inform yourself about the stuff, that runs counter to the western narrative. But then your first impulse is to go all like 🙈🙉🙊 on the slightest dissonance. You gobble up every dumb ass western narrative from actually genociding states and their spokespeople and then dismiss serious political science work trying to decipher world politics, just because it might run counter to your indoctrination.
Here, how about you read a book or something: Telling Tall Tales: Uyghur Genocide As a Political Stratagem. Or at least send me a copy, if you got too much money, because I am actually interested to learn.
But hey, writing “no thanks man” surely does the trick. Have good day then.
Hey, look, another pro-prc author. What a surprise. I don’t give a damn what sautman thinks should be called a genocide. Putting people in education camps is wrong and defending it is despicable even if it’s not “technically genocide”. Just because governments can get the same results by changing the methods doesn’t mean the end result isn’t the same… So I don’t need to waste my time by reading their opinions. Same reason why I don’t read that other bullshit either. There are no facts in there. At most some misinterpreted stats to make it seem like a good thing.. but it’s always just opinions. Not even new opinions.
You‘re the definition of willfully ignorant then. These people do serious research, they’ve certainly got more facts, than what you’ve read. Effectively, you do nothing but regurgitate propaganda and at the same time accuse respectable people of being some kind of stooge for the evil enemy. Do you even feel yourself? I‘m sorry to have wasted my time on you.
Just because I ignore the 10th pro PRC source doesn’t mean I’ve ignored all the previous ones and I’ve drawn my conclusions solely based on one POV. But we’ve already established in the other thread that even Wikipedia is propaganda for the evil west so you’re, right, this is a waste of time.