It’s actually impossible for two people to have different reactions to something, no matter how different their beliefs or life experiences are. There are only two reasons a person might disagree with you, they’re being paid off by sinister forces or they’re a bot.
Print out your posting history and fax it in triplicate to the embassy or corporation of your choice, you can expect payment within 7-10 business days.
Although I agree these people are just annoying in most cases, not all disagreement is equally valid. In too many discussions today, facts get dismissed as “that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” Facts really should change your mind when explained well.
It’s frustrating how predominant this anti-intellectualism has become. I get the tendency to think: “if you’d just educate yourself…”
Facts don’t change people’s minds. The main thing that matters is “is the source in my in-group?”
This is kind of a stupid way to live, but that’s the human baseline. So that’s how all the conservatives live, and why they won’t come around on things like climate change. They’re not listening to facts. They’re listening to their in-group.
Yes exactly, I know facts do not change people’s minds. I said facts SHOULD change people’s minds.
I don’t think their inability to process facts and change their minds is a reason to stop trying, I think the rest of us giving up is dangerous and that is what is happening right now.
Right. I think winning moves might have to play into people’s emotions. Don’t tell conservatives that greenhouse gases cause more heat to be trapped. Tell them like ONLY AMERICA CAN DEFEAT PHYSICS AND MOVE INTO THE FUTURE or whatever.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘*my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge*.’”
Nothing wrong with different tastes or opinions that aren’t objectively bad. The issue is that do many people have objectively bad opinions. Things like racism, anti-lgbtq+, hate of anyone outside their religion, pedophilia, animal cruelty, etc.
Those are objectively wrong opinions that need to be reacted to with strong opposition and taken as serious problems.
I disagree. Physical interaction is necessary for real empathy. People should get offline more, volunteer, hangout out with their community. Just seeing a person’s face, even over video conference charges interactions.
I meant everything online, yes meeting people in person (or treating them with more humanity when online) are good ways to see the humanity in others. You might not like them, but you’ll get them a little better.
I’m not sure exactly which policies you’re referring to, but if it’s the main one which is workers owning the tools that produce value, it’s hardly surprising that a bunch of people who weren’t cool with a big centralized corporation making decisions without consulting them would feel that way.
Today I heard that they have to design slaughterhouses with twists and turns so the cows can’t see what’s happening up ahead while they wait in line. Because if the cows can see the slaughtering being done to the cows ahead, they panic. Because,
COWS DON’T WANT TO DIE
I don’t know if this fact is true, but I’ve heard a lot of other facts like it that turned Me vegan. And uh, yeah, meme. Humanity actually needs to quit eating meat or humanity is going extinct. They’re chopping down the rainforests to grow soybeans, and 80% of the soy we grow is fed to livestock. If we didn’t eat milk, eggs, and dairy, then we could just eat the soy ourselves and skip all the inefficiencies of animal metabolism. Humanity is doomed if it can’t reduce meat consumption. The EAT-Lancet report recommended halving human meat consumption globally, in order to save the planet and humanity.
You should react to the fact that cows don’t want to die by going vegan. The fact that people don’t, is dooming humanity.
Another facet of what I said above: facts don’t matter. Emotions matter. Which is a stupid way to live, but that’s humans.
The average person, if you told them like “the square root of 9 is 3, you fucking idiot” isn’t going to believe you. Which, amusingly, shows they are kind of a fucking idiot.
They wouldn’t necessarily refute the math, but they’d certainly carry from that interaction that math enthusiasts seem like assholes and then not have sympathy when a mathematician is derided publicly.
I didn’t say you were incorrect, I said the manner in which you presented your fact was dismissive counterproductive and leads the other party to believe you’re a fucking imbecile
Right. But that’s a stupid strategy that leads people to believing what the flashy YouTube video says about eating horse medicine to cure cancer instead of the grumpy scientist who makes you feel bad.
You’re not wrong in describing how people behave. I’m saying that behavior is foolish.
What tone? I’m not even vegan, but like you said, they’re just saying all true things. Didn’t denigrate meat eaters as people once except to point out our cognitive dissonance, which I think any reasonable person can cop to.
Imho any friction felt in tone or messaging is coming from within (our own minds, about our discomfort with our choices).
I disagree. I think when people encounter extremist speech, they have an initial strong reaction, but then the idea sticks in their head and becomes normalised. Over time, that reaction subsides. The overton window shifts. Those Nazis in the whitehouse have been shifting the overton window right for more than a decade. At first, the public had an initial strong reaction. But then their fascist ideas stuck in their heads and became normalised. And now look where we are! The mainstream left has been pushing moderates like Joe Biden, who don’t provoke any initial strong reactions, but they don’t inspire people either. Their ideas don’t stick in people’s heads. We need more extremists in left wing politics, and we need more extreme leftist messaging.
COWS DON’T WANT TO DIE
We need to keep yelling it until it becomes normalised, and then people will take it seriously. Most people are conformists and will react to anything they haven’t heard before by shutting down. It’s actually kind of useful, evolutionarily, to be a little bit of a conformist, because it helps you fit in and avoid in-group conflict. It lets people work together more easily. But we also need radicals who are willing to shift the normal in a positive direction. And once radical ideas become normalised, only then do most people take the ideas seriously and evaluate the evidence.
Also I did go and research the claim, and it’s true. Temple Grandin designed modern slaughterhouses with semicircular arcs for the cows to walk down, which match their natural herding behaviour. The serpentine passages minimise visual distractions which spook cows, and then lead to a ramp which takes them to the stunning area. The ramp keeps them from being able to see what’s going on until they’re stunned. And then a human knocks them unconscious with a bolt to the brain and slits their throat.
Nothing wants to die. Not even suicidal people. ( Ask anyone who survived an attempt ) Hyperventilating about your messaging isn’t going to make it more convincing.
The murder apes should use their big brains to improve. Because the thing is, the murder apes used their big brains to get too good at killing, and now they’re gonna kill the ecosystems they need to live. If the murder apes can’t grow beyond murder, then they’re a worthless failed species that will cause its own extinction.
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They can’t possibly hold a different opinion from me, it must be that they don’t truly understand! I’d better explain it again.
Nah, just say “read theory” or “google it” or whatever
Don’t forget to raise your voice, get flustered, and start pointing out their character flaws irrelevant to the issue at hand
“Oh yeah? Well you’re just a fascist zionist shitlib defender of empire!”
“What does that have to do with my favorite Spice Girl?”
Everything, if it’s Posh Spice.
More like Bourgeois Spice! Hurhurhur (I’m so original)
It’s actually impossible for two people to have different reactions to something, no matter how different their beliefs or life experiences are. There are only two reasons a person might disagree with you, they’re being paid off by sinister forces or they’re a bot.
I think they’re in love with me but afraid to show it
Sounds like sinistsr forces.
Or a bot.
Sounds like you’re in love with me too! God, why is everyone so obsessed with me
That’s a ridiculous thing to assume just because someone disagrees with you… b-baka!
I disagree. Money pleaseeeeee
Print out your posting history and fax it in triplicate to the embassy or corporation of your choice, you can expect payment within 7-10 business days.
Someday I should send an unsolicited invoice for something and just see what happens.
Context really matters.
Although I agree these people are just annoying in most cases, not all disagreement is equally valid. In too many discussions today, facts get dismissed as “that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” Facts really should change your mind when explained well.
It’s frustrating how predominant this anti-intellectualism has become. I get the tendency to think: “if you’d just educate yourself…”
Facts don’t change people’s minds. The main thing that matters is “is the source in my in-group?”
This is kind of a stupid way to live, but that’s the human baseline. So that’s how all the conservatives live, and why they won’t come around on things like climate change. They’re not listening to facts. They’re listening to their in-group.
Yes exactly, I know facts do not change people’s minds. I said facts SHOULD change people’s minds.
I don’t think their inability to process facts and change their minds is a reason to stop trying, I think the rest of us giving up is dangerous and that is what is happening right now.
Right. I think winning moves might have to play into people’s emotions. Don’t tell conservatives that greenhouse gases cause more heat to be trapped. Tell them like ONLY AMERICA CAN DEFEAT PHYSICS AND MOVE INTO THE FUTURE or whatever.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘*my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge*.’”
-Isaac Asimov
context matters
“Why are people mad that Playstation is going full digital? I haven’t bought a game on a disc in years”
Kinda depends on what you’re talking about. Most things sure, others are legit kinda fucked full stop regardless.
Nothing wrong with different tastes or opinions that aren’t objectively bad. The issue is that do many people have objectively bad opinions. Things like racism, anti-lgbtq+, hate of anyone outside their religion, pedophilia, animal cruelty, etc. Those are objectively wrong opinions that need to be reacted to with strong opposition and taken as serious problems.
wRoNg ReSeArCh!!!
This made me snort, then nod while thinking “so true” to myself.
Makes me think of I Am Legend
We call that a marriage.
Lemmy in a nut shell.
Everything in a nutshell
I disagree. Physical interaction is necessary for real empathy. People should get offline more, volunteer, hangout out with their community. Just seeing a person’s face, even over video conference charges interactions.
I meant everything online, yes meeting people in person (or treating them with more humanity when online) are good ways to see the humanity in others. You might not like them, but you’ll get them a little better.
It’s also why we can’t move forward.
“Welcome to Lemmy, how leftist are you?”
the answer is “not enough"
I’m not sure exactly which policies you’re referring to, but if it’s the main one which is workers owning the tools that produce value, it’s hardly surprising that a bunch of people who weren’t cool with a big centralized corporation making decisions without consulting them would feel that way.
The answer is also “too much”.
The aye of the bee holder and all that.
Me
critical rationalists encountering literally anyone making a scientific claim
Today I heard that they have to design slaughterhouses with twists and turns so the cows can’t see what’s happening up ahead while they wait in line. Because if the cows can see the slaughtering being done to the cows ahead, they panic. Because,
COWS DON’T WANT TO DIE
I don’t know if this fact is true, but I’ve heard a lot of other facts like it that turned Me vegan. And uh, yeah, meme. Humanity actually needs to quit eating meat or humanity is going extinct. They’re chopping down the rainforests to grow soybeans, and 80% of the soy we grow is fed to livestock. If we didn’t eat milk, eggs, and dairy, then we could just eat the soy ourselves and skip all the inefficiencies of animal metabolism. Humanity is doomed if it can’t reduce meat consumption. The EAT-Lancet report recommended halving human meat consumption globally, in order to save the planet and humanity.
You should react to the fact that cows don’t want to die by going vegan. The fact that people don’t, is dooming humanity.
While nothing you have said is incorrect, your tone and messaging is more likely to drive people to the opposite position.
Another facet of what I said above: facts don’t matter. Emotions matter. Which is a stupid way to live, but that’s humans.
The average person, if you told them like “the square root of 9 is 3, you fucking idiot” isn’t going to believe you. Which, amusingly, shows they are kind of a fucking idiot.
They wouldn’t necessarily refute the math, but they’d certainly carry from that interaction that math enthusiasts seem like assholes and then not have sympathy when a mathematician is derided publicly.
Conversely one May come to the conclusion that you are a fucking idiot who doesn’t understand communication
That doesn’t change the square root of 9, and it’s stupid to discard facts because the speaker is rude.
I didn’t say you were incorrect, I said the manner in which you presented your fact was dismissive counterproductive and leads the other party to believe you’re a fucking imbecile
Right. But that’s a stupid strategy that leads people to believing what the flashy YouTube video says about eating horse medicine to cure cancer instead of the grumpy scientist who makes you feel bad.
You’re not wrong in describing how people behave. I’m saying that behavior is foolish.
Rofl beautifully put, communication is multidimensional
What tone? I’m not even vegan, but like you said, they’re just saying all true things. Didn’t denigrate meat eaters as people once except to point out our cognitive dissonance, which I think any reasonable person can cop to.
Imho any friction felt in tone or messaging is coming from within (our own minds, about our discomfort with our choices).
I disagree. I think when people encounter extremist speech, they have an initial strong reaction, but then the idea sticks in their head and becomes normalised. Over time, that reaction subsides. The overton window shifts. Those Nazis in the whitehouse have been shifting the overton window right for more than a decade. At first, the public had an initial strong reaction. But then their fascist ideas stuck in their heads and became normalised. And now look where we are! The mainstream left has been pushing moderates like Joe Biden, who don’t provoke any initial strong reactions, but they don’t inspire people either. Their ideas don’t stick in people’s heads. We need more extremists in left wing politics, and we need more extreme leftist messaging.
COWS DON’T WANT TO DIE
We need to keep yelling it until it becomes normalised, and then people will take it seriously. Most people are conformists and will react to anything they haven’t heard before by shutting down. It’s actually kind of useful, evolutionarily, to be a little bit of a conformist, because it helps you fit in and avoid in-group conflict. It lets people work together more easily. But we also need radicals who are willing to shift the normal in a positive direction. And once radical ideas become normalised, only then do most people take the ideas seriously and evaluate the evidence.
Also I did go and research the claim, and it’s true. Temple Grandin designed modern slaughterhouses with semicircular arcs for the cows to walk down, which match their natural herding behaviour. The serpentine passages minimise visual distractions which spook cows, and then lead to a ramp which takes them to the stunning area. The ramp keeps them from being able to see what’s going on until they’re stunned. And then a human knocks them unconscious with a bolt to the brain and slits their throat.
Nothing wants to die. Not even suicidal people. ( Ask anyone who survived an attempt ) Hyperventilating about your messaging isn’t going to make it more convincing.
Then killing is bad
Killing is the reason that we are here. We are the murder apes. You should never try to bring morality into a factual discussion.
I do completely agree that factory farming and murder are bad for the record.
The murder apes should use their big brains to improve. Because the thing is, the murder apes used their big brains to get too good at killing, and now they’re gonna kill the ecosystems they need to live. If the murder apes can’t grow beyond murder, then they’re a worthless failed species that will cause its own extinction.
I don’t want to die either tbh, i doubt that lion over there is gonna ca—
Different from me.