But youāre basically saying āIāve never seen a good example of pro wrestling being art, so it must not exist.ā
If itās not your thing, thatās fine, but going out of your way to say āthis entire genre is actually lesser than REAL artā is pretty silly. Itās judgemental and also pretty close minded. Itās what I used to do as a teenager.
What is the subtextual message of wrestling? What greater point of the human condition does it point to?
Saying fast food isnāt haute cuisine isnāt being close-minded, itās being accurate. Same shit applies here.
You arenāt being open minded, youāre lacking discernment.
And again, this isnāt even a value assessment. Iām not going to lie, I personally think wrestling is stupid, but Iām not insulting it by calling it kitsch. We all love tons of things that are kitsch; kitsch is not a negative. Itās just not art, holy fucking shit, people.
Art is a word with so many different but overlapping definitions that itās honestly not a very useful word, but the ones that rely on Importanceā¢ļø or Beautyā¢ļø are the dumbest ones. Mainly because who are you to decide whatās Importantā¢ļø? More often than not it just boils down to āstuff rich white Europeans like.ā
Where did I once say importance or beauty? Thatās not what defines art. I asked what the subtextual message is and what greater message about the human condition does it point to?
It just has the same energy as Roger Ebertās weird essay about how video games canāt possibly be art. Do you also not think games, movies, tv, plays, dances, etc are not art?
Hopefully you know that āpro wrestlingā is an incredibly broad term, and if youāre only thinking about WWE, youāre only getting a piece of the picture. But even beyond that, even if every single CURRENT production of pro wrestling was actually this ākitcheā term that you describe, can you maybe see the absurdity in thinking that itās literally impossible for it to be art going forward? You canāt imagine a compelling narrative that also includes some people doing over-the-top gymnastics on top of each other?
I guessā¦ Why is it important to broadly dismiss an entire genre of performance as ānot artā? Wouldnāt you rather describe your view as āso far what Iāve seen hasnāt been art to me, and I donāt really care to investigate furtherā and leave it at that?
Wouldnāt you rather describe your view as āso far what Iāve seen hasnāt been art to me, and I donāt really care to investigate furtherā and leave it at that?
I guess I just believe in peopleās ability to use deductive reasoning and common sense and donāt feel the need to couch my statements in every possible caveat.
Plenty of games, movies, tv, dances, are explicitly art. Plenty of them are also not.
I believe in the indomitable human spirit and the endless potential of human creativity. I believe anything can be made art through human determination and inspiration. Of course I believe wrestling can be art because nothing humanity touches is outside the realm of art. And of course I concede that without having witnessed the whole of wrestling, itās possible art has been made in or through it. None of that changes my position that wrestling, as standard, is not art. I donāt understand what you or anyone gains from intentionally missing the forest for the trees by insisting on pedantry and narrowing on hypotheticals, edge cases, and exceptions while ignoring the reality of the mundane standard.
Iām so tired of having to say shit like āin my opinionā and āI thinkā as if people canāt fucking infer the obvious; this is the same.
RetroFed
CaffeineTwo
Share on Mastodon
Share on Reddit
Share on WhatsApp
But youāre basically saying āIāve never seen a good example of pro wrestling being art, so it must not exist.ā
If itās not your thing, thatās fine, but going out of your way to say āthis entire genre is actually lesser than REAL artā is pretty silly. Itās judgemental and also pretty close minded. Itās what I used to do as a teenager.
What is the subtextual message of wrestling? What greater point of the human condition does it point to?
Saying fast food isnāt haute cuisine isnāt being close-minded, itās being accurate. Same shit applies here.
You arenāt being open minded, youāre lacking discernment.
And again, this isnāt even a value assessment. Iām not going to lie, I personally think wrestling is stupid, but Iām not insulting it by calling it kitsch. We all love tons of things that are kitsch; kitsch is not a negative. Itās just not art, holy fucking shit, people.
Art is a word with so many different but overlapping definitions that itās honestly not a very useful word, but the ones that rely on Importanceā¢ļø or Beautyā¢ļø are the dumbest ones. Mainly because who are you to decide whatās Importantā¢ļø? More often than not it just boils down to āstuff rich white Europeans like.ā
Where did I once say importance or beauty? Thatās not what defines art. I asked what the subtextual message is and what greater message about the human condition does it point to?
It just has the same energy as Roger Ebertās weird essay about how video games canāt possibly be art. Do you also not think games, movies, tv, plays, dances, etc are not art?
Hopefully you know that āpro wrestlingā is an incredibly broad term, and if youāre only thinking about WWE, youāre only getting a piece of the picture. But even beyond that, even if every single CURRENT production of pro wrestling was actually this ākitcheā term that you describe, can you maybe see the absurdity in thinking that itās literally impossible for it to be art going forward? You canāt imagine a compelling narrative that also includes some people doing over-the-top gymnastics on top of each other?
I guessā¦ Why is it important to broadly dismiss an entire genre of performance as ānot artā? Wouldnāt you rather describe your view as āso far what Iāve seen hasnāt been art to me, and I donāt really care to investigate furtherā and leave it at that?
I guess I just believe in peopleās ability to use deductive reasoning and common sense and donāt feel the need to couch my statements in every possible caveat.
Plenty of games, movies, tv, dances, are explicitly art. Plenty of them are also not.
I believe in the indomitable human spirit and the endless potential of human creativity. I believe anything can be made art through human determination and inspiration. Of course I believe wrestling can be art because nothing humanity touches is outside the realm of art. And of course I concede that without having witnessed the whole of wrestling, itās possible art has been made in or through it. None of that changes my position that wrestling, as standard, is not art. I donāt understand what you or anyone gains from intentionally missing the forest for the trees by insisting on pedantry and narrowing on hypotheticals, edge cases, and exceptions while ignoring the reality of the mundane standard.
Iām so tired of having to say shit like āin my opinionā and āI thinkā as if people canāt fucking infer the obvious; this is the same.