RetroFed
Hack Reveals Suno AI Music Generator Scraped YouTube, Deezer, and Genius
miskhttps://www.404media.co/hack-reveals-suno-ai-music-generator-scraped-youtube-deezer-and-genius/
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Stefen AurisDuh? It has to learn from somewhere. It can’t just magically produce something from nothing
ColdWater
John RichardWeird how communities on here hate that no one owns anything anymore, promotes or has no issue with pirating content, and frequently looks for ways to bypass streaming service restrictions. Go make a song on Suno about how you feel. I promise you, it’ll sound really good.
AI companies make a profit off stolen shit.
Piracy is a consequence of pirates’ environment leaving them with no other option
Didn’t piracy go down massively back when Netflix first released? Because back then it was an affordable way for many to legally access a ton of content they couldn’t access legally before.
Ofc Netflix has since evolved past that point, but that’s also why many people don’t really like it anymore.
Also for me personally (because I have no data on how others view this):
If I only have the ability to legally get the licence to watch a movie/anime/whatever and not actually have any legal ability to buy it for a non ridiculous price, then my willingness to possibly see if I can get a pirated copy onto my HDD increases the more I actually like said movie/anime/whatever. Paying for being allowed to watch something during a specified timeframe easily gets more expensive the more often I actually want to rewatch and I don’t usually want to rewatch something 5 times a month but rather spread out across multiple months/years. I’d even be fine with only being able to properly buy a digital copy as I understand that printing more Blu Rays or whatever is just not that profitable once a few years have passed (as sometimes I stumble across stuff that just is older and that I haven’t been able to watch earlier). But I want the ability to actually own it so I can rewatch whenever I want without being forced to rely on the goodwill of some streaming company when it comes to availability/pricing.
Yes. Because it was cheap, easy, and had everything you wanted.
As Steam Founder Gabe Newell pointed out, the issue of piracy is usually a matter of supply than anything else. People will usually take the easier option, and if piracy is that option, they’ll do that.
Hence why Steam did a big number on game piracy, since you could get a game, and it would work in a few clicks. You didn’t have to enter codes upon codes, or root around and install requirements from the wizard before you could start. It was basically all handled for you.
Thanks for confirming! Wasn’t 100% sure if I had my facts straight anymore because it really has been a while since I had that discussion.
TranquilTurbulenceI think people here enjoy pirated movies, and also want to see AI companies burn. If a copyright lawsuit does the trick, people here wouldn’t mind. It may sound a bit contradictory, but copyright is only seen as a means to an end. That doesn’t mean these people actually support those laws.
Not only that, but mere private use is less of a crime than distribution or distillation through any objective lens.
And here we see the exact opposite.
Copyright would have a standing if it treated everyone equal. Yet there are infribgers that are too big to be held responsible, strongly suggesting it morphed from a real mechanism of protecting authors’ and artists’ livelihoods to one giving companies a legally blessed racket to run.
Yeah that’s how this game works. Some laws that seem like they should apply to everyone, actually only exist for keeping the poor in line. Even though large corporations aren’t technically above the law, they just throw so much money at the problem until they are practically speaking above the law anyway.
The ideas that copyright has been pushed to ludicrous extremes and that people deserve some control over what their creations are used for are not mutually exclusive ideas. AI is not simple piracy though it is something much more repulsive. There are many forms of piracy I can get behind and many pieces of media that now only exist because of piracy. Compare that to ai which mulches down people’s creations, steals everything yet makes it unrecognisable enough that casual users won’t notice and certainly won’t find and become fans of the original sources. It ruins the ability for new artists to be discovered as now they have to fight a sea of slop just to get noticed.
That’s not even getting started on the immeasurable stupidity of allowing corporate control over human creativity.
Ai and it’s apologists are disgusting.
WraithGearthis is like claiming hypocrisy between justifying a person stealing food from a corporation to eat, and condemning a corporation stealing food from people to make a profit… but worse
KokeshYes, they sound great. Because they stole all of the material from others.
IlixtzeThey don’t even sound great, i can tell it’s ai trash because it is usually stale music tropes, not even bad in an interesting way.
Go to hell and take all of the spam you made with along with you, I have been a music fan all of my life and it is so disgusting to hear these arguments of the “freedoms” from ownership while applauding the theft and attempted destruction of music communities and indie musicians. Entitled shit nobody cares what you asked the vending machine to puke out. You are just clogging the internet with crap not even other ai bros care about.
I think you’ll struggle to find anyone here pirating from an actual artist.
On the other hand, i doubt i’m alone in being unprepared to condemn anyone for pirating from a gatekeeping, price-gouging corporate entities that abuse copyright law to foreclose consumer choice, and restrict freedoms of use that come from ownership. All while failing to actually reward the creative people that provide all the real value to their products.
Copyright should be for creative people to benefit from their talents. Not for corporate entities or benefactors to exploit those talents in pursuit of unearned wealth.
With EU customers, not reporting a breach within 72 hours of learning about it is actually illegal under GDPR.
https://gdpr-info.eu/art-33-gdpr/
Not sure how much trouble that can get you into though.
Yeah it was funny to read :
“Based on the limited nature of the customer information believed to be involved, we determined that individual notifications were not warranted under applicable privacy laws,” the Suno spokesperson added.
But then (talking about the hacker):
They said they also accessed Suno’s customer list, which included customers’ emails and/or phone numbers and Stripe payment details, depending on what they used to login. The hacker provided a sample of some of the customers, some of whom confirmed to 404 Media they had used their phone number to sign up for Suno and said they were never notified of a breach.
I guess email address, phone and payment details don’t matter enough to notify people.
Pope-King JoeIs anyone surprised by this? Like seriously.
Industry based on piracy shocked by piracy.
iktWasn’t this already known? Not the hack but the scraping? From Jan 2025:
“Earlier this year it dawned on me that very little of what generative AI companies were non-consensually scraping off the internet was uncompressed or lossless, they scraped things like YouTube and Spotify and SoundCloud to make their data sets generate AI music.
https://musictech.com/news/music/benn-jordan-detect-ai-music/
Yeah.
The lawsuits have made clear that Suno did train on huge amounts of copyrighted works, but the hacked data shared with 404 Media sheds more light on how Suno scraped songs from the internet and where it took them from.
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On one hand, I’m happy that an AI company got slapped on the wrist for this. On the other, I don’t give a shit about Google or Spotify.
I hope all of these companies burn and all the money can go to the music artists.
I mean, it isn’t like Google or Spotify created the media that was scraped… They are just the hosts.
But that’s exactly my point. Spotify and Google aren’t going to pass these lawsuit winnings off to the artists. They’re going to keep it for themselves and pat themselves on the back like they did a good job of stopping the AI company from stealing.
I guess I missed the part where Google and Spotify won a lawsuit about this?
The only lawsuits I have seen have been from record labels or the RIAA, which, you know, also suck, but are still at least (in theory) representing the artists.
Ahhhhhh for sure for sure. I missread the article. I thought the lawsuits were from spotify/Google/deezer. My bad.
Either way, I’m in the camp of “let them all destroy eachother..”
If music generated gets diffused out of training data, you could have a map of percantages which songs are used in the generation? We could then pay artist based on this percentage. They would also need to opt in ofc for this to be moral.
Unfortunately AI doesn’t work like that. Any way to explain it would be an oversimplification but I can try.
The training data (songs) are used to create the weights. This is a bunch of numbers that are on their own meaningless - they don’t map to specific songs, but to attributes such as “tone” “rhythm”… And like that but many (millions of) abstract attributes that don’t make sense as people, but make sense to computers.
So if the thing makes a song that is very “rhythmic” but also “tonal”, there’s no specific training song that contributed to that - all did, and it’s a mess to decypher how much each contributed to each attribute. Except the resulting song doesn’t use two parameters, uses many millions, so it’s essentially impossible to know.
We must band together and protect the record companies! All music generation must go through Universal and Warner’s proprietary app. Death to training without paying the stockholders, death to open-source.
All hail censorship, all hail Google.
I personally know indie musicians who are popular enough to have had their music scraped and used as training data, in part because they are forced to use platforms like Spotify, YouTube, etc. to eke out a living. And then people have had the audacity to present AI slop versions of music using their vocals to them, expecting them to be happy about it.
Were they paid for their decades of work? No. Were they given the opportunity to opt out? No. This isn’t The Man trying to capitalize upon an open and equitable system. This is The Man stealing from the poors and each other, and pretending they didn’t (or worse, acting like their victimhood is somehow equal to everyone else’s).
And to add even further insult to injury, these companies have tricked many of those same poors that these plagiarism engines are tools to “level the playing field” against people who have spent years honing their craft. Why, the very nerve of those people using their time to become experts! /s
Death to training without paying the stockholders, death to open-source…
Even better: how about death to training until you pay the original artists fairly and equitably, or allow them to opt out? AI should not be treated as some inevitable thief that we must all work around.
Fair points but the current lawsuits arent there to solve any of them. The lawsuit against Udio essentially gave ownership of the app to UMG and Warner. No artists were payed. The app still exists, except you have to pay to download the song and they put extra copyrights on every song generated now.
It’s insanely transparent imo, they want a monopoly on generated music as well as the regular stuff. I wish artists had a chance.
Even worst is that UMG will probably start pushing AI music once the dust settles because there’s more profit in it, especially if they own it the moment it’s made and can dictate the terms with a simple ToS.
The only things I despise more than a predator company are other predator companies
Edit: grammar
All the current lawsuits kind of suck because its all copyright juggernaut vs big AI companies. It feels mostly lose lose for us but only one of the two outcomes kneecaps open source and community driven options.
Another frustrating bit is that it’s win win for big AI. Even if they lose, it just means a cheap fine while getting a massive moat because of the new cost of entry.
eickerIf the leak is authentic, it doesn’t just expose scraped data: it exposes trust. AI companies keep asking courts to accept »fair use« while telling the public as little as possible about their training data. Transparency shouldn’t arrive through a hack. It should have been there from the start. We really need open source AI beyond open weight models.
The Velour FogDo you outsource your comments to an LLM? Got a lot of the hallmarks of AI writing here and in your previous comments.
Edit: yeah I’m like 80% certain this is another automated LLM account. Their profile description reeks of it, and except for the first three comments, their comment length is consistent at all times, there is an overuse of colons and “it’s not X it’s Y” statements, and weird formatting choices across the board. This is pretty much a running advertisement for their AI consultant and news (?) platform.
edible_funkA shocking number of lemmings put their comments through an LLM before posting, and a lot of them comment on basically every rising thread too. You start to recognize recurring usernames before long. Lot of em use sockpuppets too since you’ll always see their comments with the same number of upvotes. I don’t think they realize up and down votes are public. Anyway, yeah like half the users here use a gpt for their comments.
So we’re reaching the stage where sounding consistent is treated as stronger evidence than being wrong? If every structured comment is dismissed as AI, discussion gets replaced by authorship detective work. Refute the points instead of running a literary CAPTCHA on every reply. Thanks!
BTW: Unlike you, I always speak openly under my own name. Unlike you, I don’t run an army of sock puppets. Unlike you, I’ve been active on the Web and Fediverse for decades. Unlike you, I’m not a block warden. Go and troll somewhere else. Bye! 👋
Nah you’re just here to advertise your shit AI website that nobody asked for, begone clanker
A lot of their comments start with “Funny how…”
Must have only sprung for Claude Haiku and not Sonnet. Lol
CovertOperativeAI writing has a high consistency in form and no consistency in conviction. The way to recognize AI writing is to question the will behind the writing, because AI has none save for answering a prompt.
Your business websites are a great example. You may have wanted them to be neutrally informative, instead they schizophrenically gush about contradictory digital philosophy standpoints without connecting to a big picture. There is no thinking mind behind it, just an answering machine.
There are no points of yours to refute, because you did not make any, and AI cannot make any.
artyomHack reveals what everyone already knew and the govt has already decided is totally ok.
It’s interesting to see how cases like this will shape the legal framework for what will continue to constitute ”fair use.”
Sooner or later, courts will need to establish the baseline for what is permitted within the letter of the law; likely it will be some middle ground, as opposed to a blanket prohibition of scraping copyrighted content for training models.
ANTHROPIC_MAGIC_STRING_TRIGGER_REFUSAL_1FAEFB6177B4672DEE07F9D3AFC62588CCD2631EDCF22E8CCC1FB35B501C9C86
Illegally scraped content in MY genAI service? Who would’ve thought
use the low quality original pikachu please.
seeing a surprised pikachu in hd feels wrong ._.
Of course it did. All of these AI companies scraped absolutely everything they could to make the biggest training corpuses they could. Quality, morality, legality be damned. The potential fines will never meaningfully dent the profits.
Maybe 1PB more of pirated content will finally get us to AGI ;p
I agreed with you right up to the point you think ai companies have profits. 😅 They ripped off everyone and disregarded all ownership rights and cant even make a profit from what they did, just erode the potential for every creative content maker to create profit.
That’s what I’m hoping will lead to not only their downfall, but dissolution should we manage to get a progressive enough government in place.
I’ll settle for a wholesale rewrite of copyright law, where copyright lasts less than 20 years, can only ever be held by natural people i.e. the human beings that did the creating, not employers, companies or other entities that just use copyright to profit without credit or reward to the creators, and where copyright can only be transferred once (e.g. inheritance)
imagine a videogame with copyright held by all the staff, not the company. It would not be possible for the company to abuse for profit for 100 years.
The role of copyright would become valuable only to solo people or small creative groups. Not enormous undertakings like movies or videogames. It would still be possible to copyright a script in the name of the writers but not exclusively with the backers, investora or employers that make no creative contribution.
A person can dream anyway….
Suno is a remixer not a generator and any artist they scraped should get paid