RetroFed[DISCUSSION] [SPOILERS] Daredevil: Born Again S02E08
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First thing to note - opening comments:
The cover design for Glenn’s book is so crap, I hope she doesn’t become an artist ! 😉
Secondly, theorising about future developments:
Matt is in prison… Now, I know that Cox said Daredevil won’t be in Spiderman BND, but that scene where spiderman fights The Hand happens in a prison, and that scene of him launching at them off a roof top obviously looks “lonely” and edited.
I can’t think of anyone else appropriate as a buddy-up against The Hand. I’m calling it, Daredevil is in Spiderman BND.
I expect Buck is in prison with Matt. It turns out he’s actually a slightly significant recurring character in the comics, so I think he’ll play a role in season 3. He hasn’t actually faced his comeuppance like Daniel Blake predicted - unless he bled-out off screen.
Video on Buck Cashman in the comics (Sound warning at start and end)
Officer Cole North is on his redemption arc like I expected (was a bit rushed and barebones), and is in prison with Matt. I’m just so surprised to see powell and him in the same line and not at each other’s throats. I guess cops have to look out for one another in prison.
I keep on saying prison but they’re probably only in jail, i mean they can’t have tried them all already can they?
I very much like how the CIA stuff and Jessica and Luke were kept in the peripheral. There was just enough information for people to guess that Mr Charles is an associate of Valentine de Fontaine, without it overshadowing the actual story at play. We might be getting a Dark Avengers movie or series
One gripe with the episode:
I really miss non super-powered Fisk.
Fisk in seasons 1,2,3, when he crushed someone’s head he had to use a car door for it, it was a sign of him losing control and he did it in secret. Here he kills and mauls…. so many people. Civilian protesters.
It’s weird to me that they let him GO after that. The worst things about Born Again are 1. Foggy dead, 2. Ray Nadeem’s sacrifice meant almost nothing 3. Matt being able to “see” Heather’s face on the painting lol.
Ever since Hawkeye, we’ve just accepted that Fisk has superhuman strength now. And of course they’ve worked with this really well in season 1 and 2 but just personally I prefer him to be physically human. There’s something so demoralising about him killing people so easily and gruesomely.
He does seem worse at contingency planning in these 2 seasons though. My headcanon is that he took some strength serum and it “went to his head” - being able
Some things i expected to happen which didn’t:
I’m honestly more happy with what we got, though
When I saw Bullseye setting up his shot I figured Kingpin was getting headshotted right there in the court building, or as soon as he set foot outside.
Not expecting but I’m HOPING, DESPERATELY AT THIS POINT that Foggy has been hidden away by the CIA folks for threatening to expose their Freeport plan.
Closing comments
Seeing how these seasons neatly go from 1. Fisk established as a threat in season 1, to 2. Fisk on trial at the end of season 2, you can really see how this story arc would have worked as the original planned retcon of netflix daredevil (that said, i think the DD:BA season 1 we got is completely different to the original plan for it).
2 more seasons of Fisk probably would have worked better in a retcon version, to be honest.
Like don’t mean to sound like a negative troll but I would have preferred the netflix plans for season 4+5 - with Typhoid Mary, Owl 2 and Bullseye. I wish Disney hadn’t been greedy and brought Fisk back, it makes no sense that he’s not in jail after season 3.
Speaking of Fisk. I wonder what was on his mind in that closing scene. How long can that man stare at the sea for?
Re Super powered Fisk, I’m curious to see how he fairs against someone like Jessica Jones or Luke Cage. Fisk is definitely strong, definitely stronger than the average person, but I don’t know if he’s actually that super powered.
He seems to be on the same level as Matt when it comes to strength, with Matt being a bit more agile and Fisk being a bit more brute strength, but still roughly evenly matched.
I’m for one glad that they brought back D’Onofrio. His portrayal of Fisk has been a boon for Marvel. Honestly having a complex villain with such a strong presence makes the MCU through line for the Street level heroes much stronger then morass that the Avenger level heroes are dealing with.
Also the parallels with Fisk / Trump are extremely topical now. Had the exact same episodes get released a few years from now, they’d probably be less impactful. I can’t imagine how these episodes would have landed just a few months ago with the ICE operations in minneapolis being in full swing.
Yeah I didn’t want to wade in to the political fight but the parallels between Trump - Kingpin and ICE - AVTF, are really striking. They almost remind me of Andor in their discussions of rising fascism and the literal police state. This is my worry about the end of season 2, it all came a bit too pat for me but I have faith they’ll pull it together in the long run.
Fisk is boring in the disney, the character is great but the iteration is not. The voice, intonation and how he carries himself is just annoying.
Do you think there are differences in how he portrays fisk in netfkix compared to disney, and is that the root of the issue?
Because i think this fisk is noticeably different to netflix fisk. Admittedly its been a big time leap in-universe, so it’s passable.
I’m surprised to see a lot of people say D’onofrio’s acting is at its best in this season. Just because i think he already had a perfect home run in netflix and tagging more stuff onto the end of that is overdecorating a cake
I find fisk a bit of a bore to be honest, it was better in the original but I haven’t gone back to it in awhile either.
The actor is incredible in loads of things, but his way of carrying Fisk is dull. Slow weird talking, he looks like the make up department are not finished yet. The white suit doesnt help either, he used to mix up his styling a lot more.
I think the Disney one is just a bit of rethread and going for gasps over story which bores me to no end. Everyone else is doing good, I’ll tune in again if Fisk is gone.
Truly bizzare that everyone ended up in prison except the guy smashing brains of constituents in front of everyone. Dont care allegorically or otherwise it is poor writing. They wanted that acene but not the consequences.
I’m so glad everyone else agrees with this lol. That was weird. That was also not a fisk-like move to make - I said in my first comment to the thread that Netflix fisk kills people when he runs out of options and nobody is watching, this fisk kills people for fun
Netflix fisk:
Also, the character they set up in Netflix was not destined to finish his storyline on an island, nor should DD go to jail and be happy about it. Congratulatiosn Matt, you saved Fisk from facing any kind of justice and let him go free… with all the money he stole from New York…. To a Caribbean island.
I’m starting to think the writer is just playing favourites with Fisk and Bullseye.
Totally.
I was all up for a Ronin style bullseye. It would have even been interesting to have bullseye not want to hurt DD because of his guilt and growth but to still be a punisher type killing as he pleases, those who he thinks have wronged him or someone.
DD could want to stop him as a violent criminal.
I am disappointed in the season. Disappointed that I dont like Fisk too.
If you’re like me and were expecting some Punisher this season, there’s a special coming out next week called The Punisher: One Last Kill
Daredevil shows and hallway fight scenes, name a better duo.
I loved Fisk just crushing the different Daredevils as he marched down the hall. I’m amazed that Fisk is just free after all of this.
Also Mathew Lillard seemed underutilized this season, but he’s swapped Luke Cage for Bullseye, so I’m curious to see how that develops.
This hallway scene with Fisk seemed inspired by Rogue One with Vader, and the hallway scene in the original series was inspired by Oldboy. Which other famous hallway scenes should they do next?
What a crock, Fisk physically butchers civilians while negotiating ad nothing happens. Way too much.
I really enjoy DD but D’onofrio is to hammy as Fisk. The voice is so strange and physicality is off.
I was hoping for DD seeing the city tear him apart as justice, or for him to have to do it. Getting off scot free is bs, I really wanted him removed as a character going forward.
Also why did Bullseye go to work for another kingpin style guy.