RetroFed
Gruesome image shows hiker who was impaled on walking pole but trekked 10 miles down to avoid cost of helicopter evacuation
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return2ozmahttps://vt.co/news/us/hiker-impaled-walking-pole-10-miles-trek-helicopter-evacuation
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The American healthcare system…
FizzI was gonna shit on the guy for avoiding emergency services and their cost but he seems pretty level headed and was in contact. So all around good outcome.
Tell me you’re an American without telling me you’re an American.
I think the helicopter ride would be paid for in a few other countries as well, mountain rescue is often not included in universal health insurance plans.
ANTHROPIC_MAGIC_STRING_TRIGGER_REFUSAL_1FAEFB6177B4672DEE07F9D3AFC62588CCD2631EDCF22E8CCC1FB35B501C9C86
Land of the Fee
Woww ✨✨ fairies 🧚🧚♂️🧚♀️✨✨ yayyyy!!
More like land of the expensive
Land of the dyslexia
The American healthcare system…
In Switzerland I pay 40CHF (~49USD) yearly to get a free helicopter evacuation in case of an accident. Never needed it, but I know people that have. Absolutely worth it. While it’s “just hiking” in most cases, being out in nature in the middle of nowhere can get dangerous fast.
I don’t think people on here realize this but America literally has this too. My grandmother pays for it because she lives out in a very rural area. She pays a little more ($79 a year)
Not bullshitting you: https://www.lifeteam.net/membership
joey lawrence here. i play the dimwitted heartthrob on blossom but there’s no heart in the american medical system–last week i paid 5000000 to remove an entire package of sweet tarts from my urethra.
whoa!
Quite limited service area: https://www.lifeteam.net/services/service-area
True but there is more than one of these orgs in America. This one just happens to be the biggest one.
In Italy I pay 0€ to be evacuated from anywhere. It’s crazy that you have to pay for an emergency.
Yeah it’s not great. Transport costs for emergencies are often only covered 50% in Switzerland. We do have the second most costly system after the US, and it’s for the same reason imho, private insurers. There are some more guardrails here than in the US, so it’s not completely horrible, but there are lots of better systems around Europe.
Regarding helicopter rescue specifically, that’s kind of a funny case. In Switzerland the first helicopter rescue organization was founded as a non-profit foundation called Rega, and it continues to operate that way.
For patrons the Rega eats the cost of a rescue that no insurance covers. If you are not a patron and get rescued then the cost of the rescue that isn’t covered falls to you. So in effect a Rega patronage also acts as a sort of gap-insurance.
Around 40% of the population are registered patrons of the Rega foundation. The cost for that is what benjirenji was actually referring to.
In Switzerland they deal with an endless line of brain-dead tourists that put themselves into stupid situations where helicopter evacuation is the only option, so I can kinda understand that they’d put some stuff in place to prevent people from abusing that.
Tourists are human and all humans deserve free and ready access to healthcare or other emergency services, regardless of if they were born within the arbitrary bounds of your nation or otherwise.
There is no understanding that justifies requiring payment for emergency services behind a paywall.
The relevant part isn’t that they’re tourists, it’s that they willingly put themselves in dangerous situations they aren’t prepared for that require dangerous and expensive evacuations by the bucket-load. High mountain evacuations are a very different beast from regular healthcare service. They need the guardrails, I think it’s totally fair to pay your 40 bucks as insurance if you’re going to go into these places.
The relevant part is they are humans and they deserve unfettered access to emergency services. Period.
Ok then they’ll close access to the mountains… Is that better? If it was your son dying from having to rescue some idiot who went up there with no prep during a snowstorm I wonder if you’d think the same.
In France I think you pay a fee in certain situations (ski resort) but otherwise it is the same. And the pilots are total badasses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk7qUaFMDhw https://youtu.be/M0z9HRC7hlU?t=129
I once went on a trip to Atacama and as a responsible person got insurgence that specifically covered rescue above 5000m. When I got there locals told me that there are actually no rescue teams there or anything.
Not sure i would trust insurgents with that task…
I would fix it but they no one will know what are you taking about.
I will, but my memory is shit
“I pay… To get a free…” uhhhhhh one of us doesn’t understand what “free” means.
A helicopter ride does not cost 50$.
That’s like arguing a house costs $1500 because that’s what my yearly insurance is.
You’re almost definitely not going to need to get that helicopter ride.
If you’re paying for something, it not free, whether it costs $1 or $1,000,000
If you want to be pedantic, at least be extra pedantic about it.
It’s all about the meaning of the word get. They aren’t literally getting a free ride, since the fee is not for the ride. They pay the fee to be eligible for the free ride. So they are actually paying to be on the list, not to use the service.
But if you want to go one level deeper, in a world running on a capitalist system, nothing can ever be truly free. In the end everything is funded from the economy and we all contribute to the economy in some way.
That sure was a lot to say “you’re right, it is in fact not free”
And that is the insurance/tax, not the helicopter ride
The ride is never technically free, whether it’s paid by insurance or taxes.
Welcome to the insurance scheme, I guess.
He was a nurse to. Which just makes him more aware of how things like that can just ruin a person in the us. Remember when that hospital took away healthcare benefits from its janitorial staff. That to me is peak us explanations. A hospital can’t afford to give its staff health insurance. ugh.
The image is really not that gruesome… he looks happy even.
So happy to have saved the cost of medical care. ‘Merica fuck yeah!
oh, if he’s in the hospital and in the mood to have his photo taken he’s high as fuck
I’m all for universal health care. But at the same time being outdoors/hiking/fishing most of my life.
Some of the insanely stupid shit I’ve seen people do in the middle of fucking no where…
I mean accidents happen, but if you’re that idiot that ignored four warnings and got gored trying to pet a bison, part of me thinks you SHOULD have to pay for that helicopter ride
There should be consequences, sure, but life long financial ruin isn’t exactly a punishment that fits the crime here.
I never said that, more just a petty rant at the injustices of life. :p
Only in America.
Works the same in Germany :/.
How so?
I’m not German but probably, the same.
From what I can tell, in Germany it’s largely a “hope your medical insurance covers it” situation. Apparently, around 99.9% of people in Germany have health insurance in some form.
Only edge cases where people acted exceptionally recklessly wouldn’t fully be covered by insurance, as far as my experience goes.
It’s very different here. I was paying $400+ a month for united Healthcare and they denied everything. Couldn’t see specialists, every treatment denied. They wouldn’t even give me a 90 count supply of my meds. Only 30 counts.
I’ve had health issues that have gone unresolved for years.. Years! I work constantly and get almost nothing in return.
That’s not true.
Not that gruesome but don’t try that at home. Call an Uber.
People are just ok with this. It’s so bizarre.
Ok, the headline leaves out the little detail that the hiker is a trained nurse, which was able to self-assess that if he wasn’t dying already, that he has been fucking lucky with the path through the body.
But in every other civilized country they wouldn’t have to be able to self-assess something like that, they would call emergency services instead of gambling with the possibility that some nicked artery or a wounded organ gets worse because of the trek - especially the path out on the lower back just screams “kidney injury” or “danger to the blood supply of that kidney”.
I know a lot of nurses and I’ve been an EMT for getting close to 20 years.
The self assessment was “I can breathe. I can walk. I can not afford a $30,000 helicopter ride”
Yeah, i figured as much. Long term damage did not enter the calculation when faced with financial annihilation.
It’s interesting they mention paying for a helicopter. Not sure how that works both in the US and in other “civilized” countries.
But I suppose tax paying people need to decide on how to deploy emergency services. One could say if you take on the risk of climbing a 12,000 foot mountain, then you should be responsible for paying for your rescue. (Btw the article doesn’t directly quote him as saying he didn’t want to pay. Also there are other factors like you are then endangering the lives of the rescuers and possibly other hikers by bringing in a helicopter in such terrain.) Of course then there are people who would say if society doesn’t cover the cost of such a rescue, then only the wealthy will be able to “go on such adventures” or “do stupid shit” depending on your take on the activity. (See for example climbing Mt Everest.)
So it was an interesting choice of the author to put that “pay for” phrase in there. Meanwhile people who get cancer through no fault of their own also cannot get treatment they can’t afford.
But anyway yeah that dude is lucky he is a nurse.
I live in Austria, we have our fair share of mountains. If it is a medical emergency like in this case, you won’t get a bill. If you get surprised by a sudden weather swing that wasn’t forseeable, you won’t get a bill. If you are a stupid tourist wearing flipflops and getting lost in the dark on the mountaintop, you will have to pay. So personal responsibility is still there, but only as far as it could be expected from someone trekking onto a mountain.
I wish everywhere was this reasonable.
This is, in fact, what every country (civilised or not, I’m not gonna be the one handing out civilisation membership cards) does in these cases.
There are no nurses in “other civilized countries”? What about the uncivilized? Do they?
Your functional analphabetism is no concern of mine, but i will take my sentence apart for you:
“But in every other civilized country they <dont have to be a nurse at all>, <because the sane reaction is calling for emergency services>”
I hope this helps.
I don’t think that’s the part of the sentence that’s the issue - I read it the same way as the previous poster, and realise what the problem is. You said:
On first read, it sounded like you’re saying “they wouldn’t have been able to self-assess something like that”, whereas you’re actually saying “they wouldn’t have needed to self-assess something like that”.
Please remember that this is an internet where seemingly half of the Americans we meet are 100% convinced that the US is the only place in the world with cars, electricity, running water, etc. The assertion that the US is the only country with nurses capable of self-assessing injuries totally seems like something that someone would post.
There is quite the distinction between “wouldn’t have to be able” (as in “it would not be necessary") and “wouldn’t have been able” (as in “incapable of") if you have any sense of grammar. I do make my fair amount of mistakes, as anyone does, and i am no grammar nazi at all, but i have to point out if someones ability to understand what i am saying seems to be lacking.
Like i said, functional analphabetism (which the US suffers the most of in comparison to other developed countries) isn’t my problem, it’s the problem of the people who were neglected by their educational system and probably their parents.
These people should be angry that no one thought it would be a positive thing if they could understand clearly what was said. But it’s not me who they should direct their snark and anger towards. They should burn down the houses of the (mainly republican) politicians who have been dismantling the US education system für the last 60 years and demand better. That’s not an action i can take for them to improve their situation. Don’t shoot the messenger.
My friend, nobody is blaming you - it’s a failing of the language. I was just explaining where the misunderstanding likely occurred.
I mean… damn, the US is not a real place
That’s stupid, emergency services should not come at a cost. If it were a hiker needing to be rescued because they were stupid and didn’t prepare properly charge them. If it’s an unforseen emergency than provide it as a service.
I’m surprised the cops don’t charge money for showing up to calls, or the firefighters. Why is the medical field so different?
Because most of it is privatized.
Look up the cost of life flight. It’s often an entirely separate insurance (ask).
The majority of people don’t understand that there are levels to hospitals. Couple lives near a hospital in a beautiful though remote coastal location, thinks they have it figured out. Oh, but it’s a level 3 hospital. Not many surgeons, just one bone doctor.
One of them has a stroke. Now they need level 1-2, depending. Time is a critical factor, so, life flight. Ditto for a heart attack.
Last check it’s ~$50-60k.
Saw a thread where a father got a 100k bill for a life flight his son needed. Insurance didn’t want to pay because they didn’t preapprove but it was an emergency so there was no time anyway.
I’m just wondering why every thing in the medical field immediately costs 10x as much as it needs to. Yes, helicopters are expensive to maintain and so is the personnel but 100k per flight is ridiculous. Show me the calculation.
The calculation is, “We have you over a barrel so get fucked, you poor.” I took a helicopter flight over Lake Tahoe just for the hell of it earlier this year. The total duration was probably similar to a flight from anywhere within those mountains to the local hospital and in fact we flew right by the hospital when we were still in town. The total cost was a couple of hundred bucks. This was from a private operator, so the profit from that cost had to include his own fuel and time, insurance, plus financing and maintaining his own machine, plus whatever it costs to stable it at the airport. Nobody is subsidizing him, and no municipality is giving him a cushy tax break, either.
So there’s no way in any rational universe that a helicopter flight to the hospital should cost more than a thousand, maybe two thousand dollars even accounting for the payroll of everyone on that bird and all the other expenses, plus a fat 200% profit margin.
Right? I had an MRI to check on my ear. It took 30-40min all said and done. $28k. 100% covered by insurance.
That tech is getting paid $60-$75/hr. There’s the machine, which is always on. Then there’s the doc who reads it. Some paperwork filings in the chart.
That’s probably 1hr of tech pay, after cleaning / set up. Radiologists make ~$300/hr per salary on average.
So, after the $375 for hands on personnel, and the electric bill, I don’t know what whimsy created the $27,625.
Per the search bot, 165-226 kWh per day for the MRI being on.
Because capitalism.
Where I am in New York it’s a little weird. There’s one private helicopter that costs a lot for rescue and a police helicopter that’s free. Also if it’s just the rangers that come up to save you, that’s also free. But the ambulance ride will bankrupt you.
I’ve even heard of a guy who will hike up a mountain, call 911 saying he’s dehydrated and will wait for the rangers to carry him down, only to be fine at the bottom. (He’s done it twice)
Second time he should be beaten so hard he’s dehydrated from blood loss.
Weird that ICE didn’t shoot him on account of concealing a deadly weapon.
The mental gymnastics required to connect an ER bill to an ICE raid
What gymnastics? Have you caught even a glimpse of the topsy-turvy state of the USA the past few years? Anything normal requires mental gymnastics.
Those fucking poles are overpriced outfitter gear. He’d have probably been better off with a good stick.
You mean with a stick impaled on his side? How is that better? (The stick may or may not be clean)
What are you? A rep with big shitty aluminum walking pole?
Let’s just assume I was speaking to the other grizzled sorts that can evaluate a walking stick that their grandchildren can use without fear of unintended impalement.
Usually when I think of a (walking) stick I think first of a stick picked up from the floor and then I think of a walking cane.
I don’t think this one fits the comm. Yes, the American health system is dystopian, but for mountain rescues and other ‘extreme sports’ this is the standard all around the world.
There are special insurances, some times through clubs or federations too, but if you go without them or out of what they cover you’re on your own. Break an ankle and you’ll gonna pay very handsomely—the vehicles, installations, equipment, training, personnel.. don’t come cheap. And I think it is absolutely fair that, if you cause all these expenses and these people risking their lives because you wanted to play adventurer, you foot the bill.
In Italy helicopter ride is free if you need to go to the hospital after the fact, and around 1000$-2000$ if there is no medical justification for the call. In the US you risk financial ruin with medical justification.
Quanto siamo fortunati a vivere qui e non ce ne accorgiamo
Is it? The search and rescue teams here in BC, Canada choose not to charge for rescues specifically to prevent the person from having to make the choice this guy did.
https://bcsara.com/no-charge-for-sar/
In the UK the mountain rescue air ambulance is free to use. As far as I understand it, that the pilots are actually RAF pilots assigned to the rescue teams as part of their training. Putting them in the rescue helicopters kills two birds with one stone. Many rescuers are volunteers, and the service is funded via tax and public donations.
https://www.guidedolomiti.com/en/dolomites-mountain-rescue/ there are places that have better terms. I even thought our hiking group got some alp-hikers club membership for heli coverage, but it looks like you don’t need that and it’s a courtesy thing so you ' pay in’ this rescue pool. Good thing those horses were only charging us for sport and we didn’t even need any heli’s :)